[newacct583]

Just to take this one bit:

> You don't automatically achieve a coup by entering some building and interrupting some bureaucratic process

Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails. In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the electoral count act and force the house to decide.

You're simply saying that it didn't work. But that's down as much to luck (a smallish crowd and multiple barriers to cross) and architecture (cold war escape tunnels) as it is to anything fundamental. It is VERY easy to imagine an alternate universe where Pelosi and Pence are still being held hostage right now.

[incrudible]

> Sorry, but that's EXACTLY how coups work in the real world. You disrupt the government in such a way that the rule of law fails.

Come on. Rule of law doesn't stop working just because a couple of politicians don't get to sign papers on schedule. If it was that easy, the country wouldn't last a month without a successful coup.

> In fact, it's been reported that at least one Trump goal was to push certification out beyond the 11 day (I think, details are fuzzy) deadline in the electoral count act and force the house to decide.

I'd think the supreme court would have to decide if that's constitutional. If it is, then it's a crazy legal loophole and Trump would just be the first to exploit it.

> You're simply saying that it didn't work.

No. I'm saying that this "insurrection" is being blown out of proportion. Biden is elected. Trump has called his goons home.

> It is VERY easy to imagine an alternate universe where Pelosi and Pence are still being held hostage right now.

Sure, but moving forward, should we judge these people by what one might imagine could have happened, not what actually happened? I don't think so.

[newacct583]

> If it is, then it's a crazy legal loophole and Trump would just be the first to exploit it.

Sorry (and apologies to Godwin but this is legitimate) but Hitler taking power in 1933 was through a "crazy legal loophole" too. Just stop it. Take it seriously. This was a failed coup, but still a coup. Historically, failed coups (c.f. Hitler in 1923) often get repeated, successfully.

[incrudible]

> Sorry (and apologies to Godwin but this is legitimate) but Hitler taking power in 1933 was through a "crazy legal loophole" too.

Perhaps, but that wasn't a coup. Hitler actually won a democratic election.

> Just stop it. Take it seriously. This was a failed coup, but still a coup.

I think that's called a "coup attempt". Call it whatever you want, it is what is, not what it could have been. Either way, it couldn't have been successful, unless it somehow convinced senators to not certify the election, and even then there would've been a legal process ahead.

> Historically, failed coups (c.f. Hitler in 1923) often get repeated, successfully.

Trump getting legally re-elected in 2024 is of course a possibility. Maybe he'll somehow become a real dictator then. If that happens, you're allowed to call me "Mr. Chamberlain".

[newacct583]

> Perhaps, but that wasn't a coup. Hitler actually won a democratic election.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

His election to chancellor was arguably democratic. Everything that created the Third Reich was para/extra-legal machinations (c.f. the Reichstag fire!) of exactly the form that we saw attempted on Tuesday.

Trump and his mob weren't nearly as talented, so they failed. I still remain horrified that you won't take seriously what happened.

[incrudible]

Enough with the pearl clutching. Everybody condemned the riot, including Trump. He may have caused it, but he did not lead it.

Trump had four years to aggregate power through emergency laws, like Hitler. He had a golden opportunity to do so with COVID. He did not do it.

As much as you may want Trump to be like Hitler, so that you may call him and his supporters fascists, the actual facts do not support it. I stand by that. Feel free to disagree.