[adamsea]

Sure, of course there are examples of parties flopping. I'm saying that it's not a constant rule.

Like, I don't think the Democrats became less invested in environmental regulation when Nixon created the EPA.

Or with healthcare. Or abortion.

You can't just point to a flop and use it to say "oh both parties are the same and don't really stand for anything."

[woofie11]

I don't think I ever said "oh both parties are the same and don't really stand for anything."

I think what I said was that both parties try to be just at the 50 percentile mark of voters, since that wins elections, while candidates try to be at the 75th/25th percentile since that wins primaries (and then sprint to the center).

If both parties are at e.g. the 36th and 37th percentile, the 36th percentile party can jump to the 38th and be wildly successful. That's what happened with surveillance. After 9/11, the electorate shifted, and Republicans leapfrogged the Democrats, leading to a lot of success.

Both parties fundamentally want to win first.

Whether that's good or bad depends on what you compare it to. You can view it as lack of spine, or as a democratic check-and-balance.

[adamsea]

I agree that politicians and political parties want to win.

And I appreciate your clarification that (if I’m understanding correctly) you do believe there are currently some meaningful differences between the two parties.

The percentages bit I didn’t really follow (where’s the data/evidence? Or is this a theory?), and, if I’m being honest, on a day like today with the attempted coup and all, I simply don’t have the motivation to parse and understand more of what you are trying to say.

But I appreciate your clarification and additional effort to explain your intended point.