[nitrogen]

Did my comment break some guideline?

"If only Trump had you as a lawyer" crosses both the personal attack and snark lines, especially with your other comment guiding interpretation.

I'm just a bystander who likes to hang out here, but FWIW here are the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[arolihas]

I see. I guess I should have just stated that no actual evidence has stood up in the court of law by Trump’s legal team that has the most incentive to show such damning evidence. What’s crazy to me is that this community is more welcoming to wild conspiracy and misinformation stated politely than a less than kind refutation.

[nitrogen]

I think it would be nice to have a consolidated resource to link when someone raises a specific allegation of fraud, that contains a list of the arguments, court cases, and counterarguments. I chose to go on a partial media blackout in 2020 so the only things I've seen about the issue are some mathematical rebuttals on YouTube, whatever I see here on HN, and whatever I hear from my conservative friends.

It's likely some people are acting in bad faith, but many more just haven't seen convincing enough counterevidence to counteract what they've heard from "the other side". If we flag their posts so it's not even visible to most users and impossible to reply to, then it's impossible to have that conversation and we are just proving their claims of censorship and a lack of evidence.

I think it would help to have a summary essay, not attached to any news outlet, that simply listed the publicized claims of fraud (like this claim that mail-in voting is fraudulent), who benefits and loses (democrats are more likely to mail in ballots especially in 2020, so discrediting mail-in voting favors republicans), what evidence exists, what counterarguments invalidate the allegations, and whether the alleged fraud was sizable enough to sway the election. Boring and emotionless, like a spreadsheet.

[arolihas]

These people don’t listen to facts. They argue that the election results should be in favor of trump and that it was stolen and fraudulent. At the same time they insist that all of the Republican wins are perfectly valid. There’s no logic or evidence behind their beliefs that is grounded in reality. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Especially not with something as emotionally lifeless as a spreadsheet. That won’t change anyone’s mind who has been primed by their conspiracy bubbles and outrage machines

[nitrogen]

The world isn't made up of "these people" or "those people", it's made up of varied individuals -- friends, families, and neighbors. When one is using "those" kinds of phrases, it's pretty clear that one is thinking of stereotypes, and not individuals. One would be rightly excoriated for saying "these people" to refer to a race or an orientation, and the same should be true for a culture or a party.

[arolihas]

So I can’t say “these people” when referring to the ones who stormed the capitol or support that treasonous act because they wrongly believe the election was stolen? Is that really just as bad as referring to black people as “these people?”

Either way that’s besides the point, I wish I had your optimism but I doubt you’ll convince anyone who is dug in and truly believes trump won this election. If you do please let me know and I’ll apologize fervently to your friends and neighbors.