[absolutelyrad]

What can congress do? They're already blacklisted. The only thing left is to shoot your own foot. Maybe avoid that?

I've seen nothing logical that came out of Trumps silly blacklisting except cashing out on the reputation the US had for pennies on the dollar. China is destined to be Europe and the US combined in term of tech. Time will tell if their culture causes problem for them.

Smart high intelligence people + strong work ethic + competition and not rent seeking by incumbents. They're only second to Israel in terms of average human intelligence.

Every top math Olympiad participant representing the US is of Chinese ethnicity/descent, this should be noted.

[marcus_holmes]

Suggesting that human intelligence varies by race is a very old, very debunked idea that no-one believes any more outside of some small racist cliques.

[lldbg]

I haven't seen any good studies debunking it, but neither have I seen any studies which prove it. That IQ is heritable and has a large genetic component however is "settled science" [a], and the current trend in behavioural genetics seems to be that a large swathe of cognitive and social behaviours are very heritable indeed.

[a]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/

[Geminidog]

This comment should be voted down; it is inline with the current social attitudes in the US but it is scientifically not true. Nothing has been debunked. What we do know is IQ is heritable AND China has people with High IQ. Whether IQ is inherited for chinas case or whether IQ is a good quantitative measure for intelligence is not formally established but the parent-parent poster does not make an unrealistic proposition. I may get voted down on this but shame on people who voted this up for supporting a social ideal over the cold hard truth. Nothing has been debunked.

Genetics control how we look physically across all races, there is no black magic that suddenly makes every race equal in intelligence and behavior while only controlling for physical differences. Uphold your social ideals but don’t let your ideals blind you from the cold hard truth.

[marcus_holmes]

it's not "cold hard truth" it's a right-wing white-supremacist dog whistle.

[Geminidog]

No it’s not. The biases that infect the white supremacist are just one side of the extremist coin. You live on the other side of extremism. Unable to see the scientific truth past your idealism.

The white supremacist sees himself as superior even though reality says he clearly isn’t and you see everything as equal even though it clearly isn’t the case. The truth is far more complex. But that is irrelevant to you. You don’t care about the truth, you only care about defeating your enemy, the white supremacist.

Thats why your childish response tries to turn the whole topic into a war against your personal enemy. Almost no one here is a white supremacist so your statement serves no one other than yourself.

How can I say so much about your character without really knowing you? First off you made a huge logical error that reveals your biases.

IQ scores do not make white people look good. They make Asians look smart. If anything IQ scores will be utilized by Asian supremacists NOT white supremacists. It is totally illogical to think that IQ scores are used by white supremacists when Asians have Superior scores.

Yet here you are calling it a white supremacist dog whistle. Totally illogical. So why do you do it? Again the only reason here is because your statement serves your own personal biases. My advice to you is to to cast your biases aside and try to be more logical. You are a software engineer and logical thought is a required trait for all software engineers so it's good for you to train for this because clearly you lack training in this area.

[marcus_holmes]

No, my response is based on the science.

The cold hard truth is that there isn't a single study identifying any kind of racial component to IQ (and please supply one if you know different).

The reason it's a white supremecist dog whistle is that any theory that suggests that character has anything to do with race allows racists to say that "they are like this, therefore we must treat them like this". Also, nazism - the Nazis were huge believers in racial differences.

If we can agree that individual differences in IQ massively outweigh all other factors (in that there are low-IQ asians, and high-IQ white folks) then any kind of racial profiling around this is just racism. You cannot conclude anything about an individual from their race.

And you're not controlling for cultural differences. I've spent time in Asia, and the cultural differences are enormous. Massively outweighing any genetic differences.

[Geminidog]

> No, my response is based on the science.

Then cite your science. Don't give me some one sentence response with no evidence.

>The cold hard truth is that there isn't a single study identifying any kind of racial component to IQ (and please supply one if you know different).

I literally stated that the cold hard truth makes this controversial not definitive. There is no single study that race as a causative factor for IQ but there is also no single study that definitively separates IQ and race. This is something hard to measure, but it is highly highly unrealistic to assume that there is zero correlation with IQ and race when all genes control both physical attributes and mental attributes. What we do know is that IQ is correlated with race. This much is true. Correlation doesn't imply causation but it doesn't terminate any possibility of causation either. In fact correlation is a prerequisite to causation.

https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

Note that for the above Asian countries have vastly different cultures between countries. Also note that despite vastly different cultures the top countries are mostly Asian. Correlation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Group_di...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18656315/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20712152/

Actual studies are numerous and produces definitive differences between in IQ between countries AND race. What causes these differences is controversial but the difference and correlations exist (even when accounting for Asians and white people living in the same culture.) There are even studies where the authors conclude that IQ is indeed caused by race. However there are conflicting conclusions that say otherwise. The causation is controversial but the correlation is definitive.

>If we can agree that individual differences in IQ massively outweigh all other factors (in that there are low-IQ asians, and high-IQ white folks) then any kind of racial profiling around this is just racism. You cannot conclude anything about an individual from their race.

I am not arguing for racial profiling. Please do not imply this and turn this into a racist witch hunt. I am arguing for observable facts.

There are low IQ asians and high IQ white people this much is true. But statistics talks in terms of bell curves and generalities. The IQ bell curve for a population of Asians is higher then the IQ bell curve for a population of white people. This fact cannot be denied.

>And you're not controlling for cultural differences. I've spent time in Asia, and the cultural differences are enormous. Massively outweighing any genetic differences.

I am aware of the cultural differences. Show me some studies relating IQ to culture and you have an argument here. However it proves nothing. IQ differences can be influenced by either culture or race or both. There is nothing that definitively proves either factor yet here you are specifically stating that your view is based on science. It is not.

[dash2]

I don't read the comment as suggesting that Chinese people are genetically smart - just that they are smart. That IQ varies by race or ethnicity is an established fact, not a debunked theory. The controversial question is why it varies - nature or the environment?

[unityByFreedom]

Nature vs nurture is an ancient argument. Science indicates both contribute, and IQ is a subjective measure of what's perceived as intelligent. It certainly isn't settled science that some ethnicities are more intelligent on average than others. That is some James Damore BS that can never be measured. And by the way, we are one human race, according to the scientific definition.

[dash2]

You are only right to the extent that IQ is indeed a "subjective measure". For example, there are IQ differences between black and white people in the US. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_gaps_in_the_United.... Debates about this take the form (a) of arguing about what IQ measures, and whether it is valid; (b) of arguing about whether environmental or genetic factors contribute to the differences - for instance, if you have worse nutrition, experience more air pollution, or have a less stimulating home environment, all of these might cause your IQ to be lower than someone else. However, there is no serious debate that the gaps in IQ tests (and many other achievement measures) exist.

The debate about whether IQ is "subjective" is ongoing but some things are pretty clearly known. For instance, IQ is highly predictive of many life outcomes, and many different kinds of academic tests all load on a single factor (general intelligence).

This has all been debated up and down the hillsides, and although I don't think IQ is the single measure that defines everything (obviously?), you are premature to dismiss IQ as "subjective". That's far from obvious.

[unityByFreedom]

Your thesis and supportive arguments contradict your conclusion.

[absolutelyrad]

If the math Olympiad is racist then so is fashion modelling and NFL.

And I called it ethnicity/descent already.

[xtian]

That’s not sufficient evidence for the scale of the claim you’re making about basic human nature. Many other factors can explain China’s success much less the demographic composition of Math Olympiad participants.

[iso8859-1]

Without mentioning how the intelligence is measured, how can you decide that it is racist? You're not assuming good faith.

[rscho]

China is destined by US and European politicians to take power, because those in power are totally corrupt. This has nothing to do with the instrinsic abilities of respective populations. Same goes for Israel. And you have a strange definition of ethics given the amount of IP piracy going on with the blessing of occidental politicians.

[absolutelyrad]

> And you have a strange definition of ethics given the amount of IP piracy going on with the blessing of occidental politicians.

What IP did Huawei steal? 5G?

[baja_blast]

> Every top math Olympiad participant representing the US is of Chinese ethnicity/descent, this should be noted.

But conversely, if you look at winners of the Fields Medal, Abel Prize, Wolf Prize, Chern Medal etc. There is surprisingly few Chinese recipients despite outnumbering everyone else in total population.

[anglercut]

> Chern Medal

Self-explanatory, I think.