[gnusty_gnurc]

> Limiting the consumption seems logical.

Lots of "plans" seem logical and this is precisely why technocracy is a vexation on society.

Unintended consequences. The presumption of knowledge and control.

All of these elite presumptions are illusory and fundamentally hubristic.

You know why "limiting the consumption" of alcohol is a dumb suggestion? We have tons of evidence that it was a massive failure: Prohibition and the War on Drugs.

No matter how well-intended you are - it'll backfire and people will ignore it.

Humans are fundamentally social creatures. Millions of years of evolution have seared into their biology the instinct to be social.

The idea that we can force humans into acting against their fundamental instincts to socialize is folly. Not only folly - but abuse.

But seriously, it's bizarre. The obdurance of so-called experts set on working against the grain of every human instinct, as though that's likely to maximize the success of their plans.

[f6v]

> The idea that we can force humans into acting against their fundamental instincts to socialize is folly.

Do you really want to go down that road? Well, here we go: procreation is a fundamental human instinct. Do you want to legalize rape? Didn’t think so. You see how folly your argument is?

[gnusty_gnurc]

> Well, here we go: procreation is a fundamental human instinct. Do you want to legalize rape?

This is non-sequitur.

A better comparison is like legally enforcing abstinence to eradicate HIV.

If you can't get the idea that isolation is counter-intuitive to humans and damaging to their health and psychology, and therefore bound to be hard to get compliance, I'm not sure what to say.

This is why jail is jail. Isolation is unnatural. It's punishment. No one voluntary chooses this.

[f6v]

Individual’s comfort can’t be a number one priority in a times of crisis. Sitting at home in a digital age when video calling anyone in the world is absolutely free, it’s the least you can do. Also all the entertainment which is available nowadays. How hard can it be to make this sacrifice so that someone’s grandma doesn’t die?

> isolation is counter-intuitive to humans

20 million cities are counterintuitive, and so is math. We get by.

I’m not denying that what is asked from people is a huge sacrifice. But not the biggest sacrifice you can imagine. And it’s definitely manageable.

[matz1]

As if grandma even want to be in isolation in the first place.

My grandma would rather took the small risk of dying of covid to go outside, socialize with their friends and family.

[gnusty_gnurc]

> How hard can it be to make this sacrifice so that someone’s grandma doesn’t die?

This is where things go wrong.

You're shaming people for feeling natural human instincts to socialize.

As though it's selfish to not want to be locked in your house indefinitely.

There is a striking resemblance here of the tactics used by abusers and emotional manipulators.

> But not the biggest sacrifice you can imagine. And it’s definitely manageable.

That's a completely presumptuous personal view - for a very large and underappreciated segment of the population, the ongoing lockdown measures to combat coronavirus are absolutely devastating.

[jasonlaramburu]

>You're shaming people for feeling natural human instincts

There are many 'natural' human instincts that are harmful to society and are either strongly discouraged or outlawed (violence, drug abuse, overeating to name a few).

[gnusty_gnurc]

"Harmful to society" is a poor standard used to justify a lot of evil stuff. That standard once included homosexuality. It was the basis for eugenics. Also like I mentioned before - Prohibition. It's a standard that's ultimately subjective and self-deceiving.

You're arguing that we should outlaw something that's vital to human life. Social interaction.

Violence, on the other hand, is clearly not necessary or virtuous.

Isolation is a form of punishment and I hope you're not saying that we all must be punished for the greater good and any dissent is evil. That's borderline cultish.

[djsumdog]

Tell that to my best friend in the UK who's Italian flatmate committed suicide back in March.

[c0nducktr]

I truly am not trying to be insensitive, but didn't these restrictions only just barely begin back in March? It's difficult for me to see the causation.

[djsumdog]

I went back and found the e-mail. She said in it, "I was doing OK there until one of my Italian colleagues committed suicide as he couldn't take the lockdown. He was in his 20s..."

So sorry, not flatmate, workmate. If the lock-downs weren't the main cause, I'm sure they certainly didn't help.

Keep in mind Thomas Schäfer, a German minister of fiance, committed suicide by train in March as well.

Another person I know told me his daughter's best friend killed herself during the lockdowns as well, and that was during the fall.

And I'll say this too, if I was in my 20s right now, I'd be at very high risk for suicide. I've had a lot of years under me and am in a much better place right now. But if I was younger and had access to firearms like I did back then, I most likely would not be here.

This has got to stop.