[axiolite]

> At some point, whatever's watching the watchers is going to be vulnerable to bitflip

One advantage of microkernels is that the "watcher" is so small that it could be run directly from ROM, instead of loaded into RAM. QNX has advocated that route for robotics and such in the past.

Minix may not be the best example of the type. While it is a microkernel, it's real world reliability has been poor in the past. More mature microkernel operating systems like QNX and OpenVMS are better examples.

[exikyut]

> While it is a microkernel, it's real world reliability has been poor in the past.

Nitpick/clarification: it currently supervises the security posture, attestation state and overall health of several billion(?) Intel CPUs as the kernel used by the latest version of the Management Engine.

If ME is shut down completely apparently the CPU switches off within 20 minutes. Presumably this applies across the full uptime of the processor, and not just immediately after boot, and iff this is the case... percentage of Intel CPUs that randomly switch off === instability/unreliability of Minix in a tightly controlled industrial setting.

[KMag]

Anyone have any idea why there haven't been any open-source QNX clones, at least not any widely known ones? Even before their Photon MicroGUI patents expired, the clones could have used X11.

I used to occasionally boot into QNX on my desktop in college. It was a very responsive and stable system.

Hypervisors are, to a first approximation, microkernels with a hardware-like interface. All of this kernel bypass work being done by RDBMSes, ScyllaDB, HFTs, etc. is, to a first approximation, making a monolithic kernel act a bit like a microkernel.

[fulafel]

There are well known open source microkernels, like Minix 3 and L4. Probably not that attractive.

Why something hasn't been done is always a hard question to answer, since to succeed a lot of things have to go right, and by default none of them do. But one thing is that microkernels were more trendy in the 90s - r&d people are mostly doing things like "the cluster is the computer", unikernel, exokernel, rump kernel, embedded (eg tock), remote attestation since then (I'm not up to date on the latest).

[KMag]

Thinking about it a bit more, QNX clones might suffer from something akin to second system syndrome. There's a simple working design, and it likely strongly invites people to jump right to their own twist on the design before they get very far into a clone.

[tomxor]

> Minix may not be the best example of the type. While it is a microkernel, it's real world reliability has been poor in the past. More mature microkernel operating systems like QNX and OpenVMS are better examples.

You might be referring to the previous versions. Minix 3 is basically a different OS, it's more than an educational tool - in fact it's probably running inside your computer right now if you have an Intel CPU (it runs Intel's ME chip - for better or worse).