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by acrefoot 1988 days ago
I appreciate the intentions behind this bill, and I'm sure we'll find far more corruption than we ever expected through this bill.

I'm reminded of the Patriot Act, and the ways the data collected were used (beneficially), and abused (for personal reasons) by people trusted with high-level clearance. How is access being limited and audited to the data collected by this new bill?

I feel the same way about the government grant system relying on the DUNS system (run by a private company) for business registration. I also feel this way about credit agencies like Experian and Equifax being the trusted source of truth on creditworthiness for Fannie Mae loans, and collecting records on essentially all Americans (no consumer choice and limited opt-out) which inevitably gets leaked. The liability of Experian and Equifax should have been their entire businesses, not a few slaps on the wrist and the offer of credit monitoring for just a year.

With all that in mind, I want to know--when this bill is implemented, how is this not inevitably going to result in abuses or harmful massive leaks? Or do you just assume that entities below a certain threshold of activity don't deserve privacy or some level of property obscurity to help people avoid criminal attention?

The kind of info this bill is collecting could be easily be used by identity thieves. Sharing this info with foreign entities makes the problem worse.

Civil forfeiture started off with good intentions, but in many places has a serious lack of recourse and oversight. There have been some reports that it's abused as a quick way for police departments to pad their budgets. Those doing the seizing don't even need to prove guilt of a person, since civil forfeiture is a dispute between police and property, not police and a suspected person. Sure, these policies let police cripple the more clever criminals that they had trouble bringing to justice, but it also gets used all the time in ways against people (I guess against property) that would reasonably argue innocence.

2 comments

> how is this not inevitably going to result in abuses or harmful massive leaks?

There probably will be abuses and leaks—-I don’t think anyone should trust the government with population-wide data that is catastrophic if compromised. But on the ladder of OPM data and IRS tax records to e.g. potato registries, beneficial ownership data isn’t that sensitive. Many countries make it a matter of public record with few ill effects. (Counterpoint: Sweden makes tax records public record. The IRS being compromised would be a big deal.)

The church, charity and non-profit exemption is the hole of the bulldozer path that had to be left to protect private civic discourse. This will be abused by the wealthy and powerful. But as a result, there will be no comprehensive database of e.g. donors to prison reform or LGBT causes.

> Counterpoint: Sweden makes tax records public record. The IRS being compromised would be a big deal.

It would be a big deal only because it would shatter current expectations. As you've mentioned, society would operate just fine if everyone's tax records were public. The aversion that people feel towards it is largely cultural - if they were brought up in a different western society, they wouldn't feel that way.

Interesting. Why targeting money specifically? If someone claims that people should not have secrets about their wallets, others may claim no one should have secrets about their bedrooms. After all, "It would be a big deal only because it would shatter current expectations. Society would operate just fine if everyone's affairs were public. The aversion that people feel towards it is largely cultural - if they were brought up in a different society, they wouldn't feel that way" right?
For most people, most of their bedroom activities are public in the US. Specifically, they are recorded in public marriage records that anyone can peruse.

Thank you for making my point.

I actually doubt it. Primatologists notice that humans in general have sex in private (and face to face) unlike all other primates.
> others may claim no one should have secrets about their bedrooms.

What does that even mean?

It would shatter current illusions, too. Definitely a move for the better.
"Potato registries"?
I don't know if the US has one, but many European countries do.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-seed-potato-classification-s...

> How is access being limited and audited to the data collected by this new bill?

Why should it be? There's no sensible reason why ownership of a company should have to be kept secret, AFAICS. If your company does shit so shady you're ashamed to stand up and admit to it, that shit is probably so shady it already is — or should be — illegal anyway.