[bregma]

I'm a command-line development tools maintainer for an OS. I am not unfamiliar with high-level CVEs in my inbox with the likes of "gdb crashes on a handcrafted core file causing a DoS". I am unfamiliar with a real world in which a simple old-fashioned segfault in a crash analysis tool is truly a denial of service security vulnerability, but our security department assures us we need to drop all revenue work and rush out a fix because our customers may already be aware that our product is shipping with a known CVE.

There are occasions in which I recognize a CVE as a vulnerability to a legitimate possible threat to an asset. By and large, however, they seem to be marketing material for either organizations offering "protection" or academics seeking publication.

I think like anything else of value, inflation will eat away at the CVE system until something newer and once again effective will come along.

[raverbashing]

Ah yes, this also fits with the famous "no insecure algorithms" in which an auditor will check a box if your use md5, even if for a feature totally unrelated to security.

[geofft]

In fairness, those sorts of features tend to be subject to scope creep where they start being used for security.

For instance, Linus Torvalds (a very smart person) resisted using something stronger than SHA-1 for Git because he said the purpose of hashes isn't security, it's content-addressable lookup of objects. Which may have been true at the time, but then Git added commit signing. Now if you sign a commit, no matter how strong of an algorithm you use, the commit object references a tree of files via SHA-1. Git is currently undergoing an extremely annoying migration to support new hash algorithms, which could have been avoided.

Also, BLAKE3 is faster than MD5 and also far more secure, so if you're saying "It's okay I'm using MD5 because I want a faster hash and SHA-256 is too slow," there are options other than SHA-256.

If the thing you're trying to hash really really isn't cryptographic at all, you can do a lot better than MD5 in terms of performance by using something like xxHash or MurmurHash.

So, even if it isn't a security vulnerability, using MD5 in a new design today (i.e., where there's no requirement for compatibility with an old system that specified MD5) is a design flaw.

[anonydsfsfs]

> Also, BLAKE3 is faster than MD5 and also far more secure, so if you're saying "It's okay I'm using MD5 because I want a faster hash and SHA-256 is too slow," there are options other than SHA-256.

True, but BLAKE3 isn't shipped as part of the standard library of many (any?) languages, whereas MD5 is. There are third-party implementations for a lot of languages, but using one of these brings up a lot of problems:

1. Are you sure the implementation doesn't have any bugs? AFAIK, the BLAKE3 team has only created C and Rust implementations, so anything else likely hasn't received the same level of care.

2. How are you going to notified of bugs or vulnerabilities in the implementation? For your language's standard library, it's usually easy to get notified of any bugs or vulnerabilities, but you're probably not going to get that from some random implementation on Github.

3. Pulling in the dependency can be an attack vector in itself. For example, if you use the Javascript implementation on NPM, you're now going to have worry about the NPM author having their account compromised and the package replaced with malicious code.

[geofft]

That's fair, I should have added that as an exception too. Another similar case: you're writing a shell script and you can assume the target machines all have md5sum installed but not necessarily b3sum.

[Macha]

Our security team at a previous employer previously added a systemwide checker to our github enterprise installation that would spam comments on any change to a file in which Math.random is used. The idea is that anyone using random numbers must be implementing a cryptographic protocol and therefore should not be using Math.random as it's not a CSPRNG.

So all the AB tests, percentage rollouts etc. started getting spam PR comments until they were made to turn it back off again.

Frankly if a teammate was writing their own crypto algorithm implemntation in the bog standard web app we working on, that would be more concerning than which RNG they're using.

[consp]

I've seen exactly this many times in audits (gets them a high score!). If they flag it and not check the usage I know they didn't bother putting anyone good on the audit or only ran automated stuff and it is pretty much useless. The same can now be said for sha1, gets them results quickly and looks good on the final report.

[saagarjha]

Related, Apple marks any use of MD5 with a warning if you use their SDKs. Good luck getting rid of it if you’re using Swift, because the community has not yet decided whether silencing warnings is something they would like in the language or not. I’m getting kind of sick of using dlsym to fish out the function pointer :(

[koolba]

There’s the “executive” level of this stupidity where an app replaces their md5 OpenSSL calls with their own internal copy pasta of the function.

“Look ma! We’re FIPS compliant now!”

[whydoyoucare]

Unfortunately, that happens because most regulations try to enforce a black-and-white rulebook, which is easy on the auditors but extremely difficult on those being audited.

I now thinks most compliance regulations are by auditors for auditors... :-D :-D

[brohee]

TBH, if you are doing security with it, it's obviously wrong, but if you are not, it also is because way better (faster) options exist for non security usage...