[patcon]

Really like this "meta lifeform" idea. I'd suggest it might go further, even into the realm of language, story, and culture.

Might there be a case for claiming language itself is another level of meta lifeform that has grown and evolved within the habitable neural landscape of our mind. Perhaps this is what separates us from animals.

So obscure theories from computational linguists get pretty deep in this stuff. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this stuff since I read about it last year.

Language as organism: A brief introduction to the Leiden theory of language evolution https://www.researchgate.net/publication/316659539_Language_...

[plutonorm]

Yes. Let's try to blow your mind. Is it organisms all the way down? Where do atoms come from? Literally I don't know, just a shower thought for you.

[patcon]

Heh thanks :) I'd venture it's more about "life-emerging" forces happening at all scales -- That all matter is slowly tending toward living when it sits in the blaze of an entropy-generating monster like a star.

Disclaimer: Did an honours degree in biochemistry, so perhaps I'm not so great at filling in the narrative space of my own mental leaps :)

[pavas]

You're describing memes.

[patcon]

The distinctions (between all the ways "meme" is used) are addressed pretty well in van Driem's papers and book chapters. In short, Dawkinsian "memes" are a very weakened version, mostly based on rote mimicking and copying. His meme was actually more strongly defined in the prior literature that he borrowed the term from and diluted.

The Leiden hypothesis leans on a harder version, in which memes are quite literally a new strata of life and our minds are co-evolved host organisms that straddle two layers -- a cyborg of biological and semiotic organisms. Our minds might be better conceived as akin to the fertile replication machinery of the biological systems below (ie. DNA polymerase) -- Where the linear packets of information are remixed and recombined after being delivered from the internal and external environment. And if there's some truth there, then it prompts lots of questions (e.g., about what is the most appropriate unit of life at the cultural/linguistic level. Because DNA polymerase is not what we normally consider "alive" -- we consider the aggregate cell alive. etc. etc)