[gr__or]

> Secondly it creates dependency between receivers and givers. I'd rather empower workers collectively than make people dependent on welfare. This, in contrast to UBI is I think viable across the spectrum and actually what people want.

This one I don't get. Empowering workers, in leftie politics, usually means some version of labor, wage, union,... protection laws (not saying this wrong, I'm myself seeped in leftisms). Thus creating a dependency to the state to protect one's work from the ruthless.

Where is the principal difference between being dependent on the state for cash vs protection?

Wrt the larger UBI point: I see it more as an opportunity for people to find deeper, more personally meaningful, work. My inner optimist hopes people would seek out more fulfilling, self-determined, work. My inner pessimist sees the Wall-E thing, though I would not call it underpinning. My inner realist would like to see more studies.