[rantwasp]

when Ballmer took over MS was right after the anti-trust fiasco. There was a time when people were not sure if the software giant was going to survive. They did under Ballmer.

From a sales pov, the company also grew and prospered. Microsoft had phenomenal growth while under Ballmer.

It's easy to remember all the things he botched (hello iphone?) but if you look at it objectively I think Ms did survive and prospered under Ballmer.

[Judgmentality]

> It's easy to remember all the things he botched (hello iphone?) but if you look at it objectively I think Ms did survive and prospered under Ballmer.

If you look at it objectively you include all the things he botched, which are "easy to remember" according to you. At best, he was meh. In my personal opinion he was horrible - I think a random employee likely would have done better.

[rantwasp]

I’m going to respectfully disagree. He did contribute to MS before he became CEO. And invested in a lot of things where the fruits are harvested to this day.

[Judgmentality]

> He did contribute to MS before he became CEO.

I thought we were assessing him as a CEO, not an employee. Sure, he contributed before, and during, being a CEO. And obviously everything is speculation since we can't A/B test hypothetical timelines. But the numerous anecdotes of his "unique" management (if some of the stories are true, which I cannot verify, the guy should get sued for harassment on multiple counts), the fact that he missed obvious opportunities for MS (sure it's easy in hindsight, but even then I remember thinking "what is he doing?"), and the fact that Microsoft's reputation plummeted during his reign (again, subjective, but none of my friends wanted to work there and openly mocked it as an employer and that has completely changed under Nadella) are all strong signs that he wasn't an excellent leader.

But ultimately this is just my opinion, and he's a brilliant (I think he's a horrible CEO, but a very talented mathematician) billionaire. So what do I know?

[rantwasp]

It’s okay to have your own opinion. I think it’s really easy to judge others when we are not in their shoes and to believe that somehow we could have done a better job. As you point out, it’s hard to understand what would have happened in a different scenario.

[MichaelZuo]

When cycles happen on decade long time scales and planning horizons outlast a ceo’s tenure assessing credit and blame becomes exponentially harder. Your right on with Balmer’s contributions.

One wonders how the future of civilization will work if the vast majority cannot even understand the true scope of the wheels they’re standing on, or turning in the background.

[happycube]

Yup... there are a lot of counter-examples of what actually-bad CEO's leave behind. (HP comes to mind... but that's far from the worst case since it still exists.)