[johnhartigun]

Maybe in general, but I don't think you're right in the case of self-driving systems. Waymo says that perception is the easy part and most of the work is elsewhere. So in the absolute worst case scenario, they would have to develop the perception part from scratch. At Tesla, this took 2 years.

BTW, all companies that can, use lidars. Even MobileEye says that their L4 system will use lidars and they've been working on a camera based system for 2 decades. Tesla doesn't use lidars because they can't.

[nirushiv]

I mean - I have no idea what’s going on at Tesla, but its very likely they’re doing some internal work with Lidar. They surey understand the risk with w vision-only approach. Elon, and Karpathy, and Laettner previously, aren’t fools. The problem for Tesla is they can’t be too Lidar dependent because nobody mass-produces them

[johnhartigun]

Tesla can't use lidars because: 1. It would make the cars much more expensive. 2. They would have to refund all people who've bough FSD or provide them a free upgrade.

[nirushiv]

These are fairly artificial constraints.

1. Lidar is expensive for everyone. It’s not like Tesla will pay more than other manufacturers. They’d prefer not to use Lidar, but if cameras just don’t cut it, I don't think they would die on that hill.

2. I’m sure there is some fine print around the current FSD being for camera based sensors only. They can easily say the car tops off at L4 for cameras, and L5 needs Lidar, if we come to that bridge

[RivieraKid]

Yeah, it's expensive for everyone but the point was that the FSD product is de facto impossible with lidars. Therefore, they have to pretend that it can be done with cameras.