[Keverw]

This seems so dystopian.

"Mr Illa said people would be contacted by regional authorities when it was their turn to be inoculated."

So they are just going to some how contact everyone who has an ID? This seems like something that should be between someone and their doctor. If they have one or want one.

Then what about it mutating, are they going to have a new one and do this every year? Don't want to sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist, but I'm skeptical of this whole thing.

[torben-friis]

Spaniard here.

I'm curious about the negative reaction about this news.

Here, growing up, we have a list of vaccines that a child gets as they grow up (tetanus, diphteria, chickenpox, etc). your pediatrist knows the schedule and follows along, obviously.

Perhaps the piece that is missing from an american mindset is that medical record is also in public hands, since healthcare is public funded and free for taxpayers. How else are doctors going to keep the record of the medical history of a patient?

I personally would love being able to travel without having to go through a PCR because there's a record somewhere that I'm immune for example. Those things aren't pleasant.

[doublejay1999]

> Here, growing up, we have a list of vaccines that a child gets as they grow up (tetanus, diphteria, chickenpox, etc). your pediatrist knows the schedule and follows along, obviously.

This is such an important point !

History has many examples of how fatal and disabling diseases were conquered by medicine, giving billions of people healthy lives. Each of these victories is celebrated as human mastery of science, and dominion over its environment.

Fast forward to now, and there is a small but growing rejection of this idea, and instead the concept of individual liberty has become sacrosanct, to a point where it appears to be valued more than public health.

I dont think this is really the case.

I prefer to think that people have become accustomed to living comfortable long lives in excellent health and that people have forgotten how far we've come, and how we got here.

I haven't done empirical research, but most of the sentiment for freedom of choice seems to come from highly developed areas of the world, where people have lived with the expectation of good health and without fear of epidemics, for 2 or maybe 3 generations.

I have yet to read of any such sentiment in developing nations of Africa, Central America, and eastern Europe where they perhaps remain more aware of the dangers of disease spreading in a community.

[Keverw]

In America records are pretty much decentralized. If you switched to another dentist, you'd have to get the records from your old one. Same for regular doctors. Usually there's a release to fill out. And not even digital depending on where, some still use paper and pen and a folder.

I think some states started doing vaccine registers for schools and stuff. But if not and say you lose your proof and needed it for say going to another school or college, your option is to get a test if your immune, get it again or an exemption depending on the state... Like California only allows medical, while some states allow religious or personal exemptions.

[KSteffensen]

>some still use paper and pen and a folder.

Things like this are mindboggling to me. I don't understand how people can claim the USA is the greatest country in the world, it's so backward.

[ceilingcorner]

You do know that not every ‘advance’ in technology is always good, right?

[KSteffensen]

Agreed. Voting machines definitely seem like a step backwards. Keeping doctors records on digital media and sharing them in case the patient switches doctors seems like common sense though.

[spurgu]

There's the flipside of the coin though: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/tens-of-thousa...

[Darmody]

Spanish healthcare is decentralized as well. Every "Comunidad Autónoma" (think about them as states in the US) has its own healthcare system. Which is a pain in the ass if you have some condition and something happens to you outside of your autonomous community.

[ptsneves]

In Portugal it is the same. I am not a socialist but i do not find public health and sanitation a political /ideological issue. It in my libertarian bag as it violates the freedoms and human rights of others to not have diseases. Not having a vaccine harms others through lack of herd immunity.

Also I would argue it is more a business issue. These countries rely a lot on the hospitality and tourism industry and lack of herd immunity means the economy is severely hamstrung. So yeah, it is actually a matter of economic survival. For me it should be mandatory, but as far as i know Portuguese constitution does not allow it. Even for the lock down they needed to declare national emergency, because otherwise there would not be a legal basis for it. The only other time there was an emergency was when the country was on the verge of a civil war after the carnations revolution in the 70s.

In Portugal you used to have a vaccine card, which some institutions required you to provide. For example, health professionals are required the vaccine bulletin to apply for work.

Except for the case above, I am not aware any other case where the vaccine record is required for adults. I actually lost my card several years ago. I think they started digitalizing it though, but i do not think it contains old information, only newly taken vaccine shots.

I said adults, because for children there is a caveat, where there is a de facto enforcement unless exempted by a medical doctor, or home school (very rare). To apply to a school your child needs to have the OPs mentioned vaccines. If you do not you will be denied application. Every year it is checked. As there is mandatory education in Portugal the way around it is very hard.

[StavrosK]

I don't understand how people are fine with the TSA going through their luggage unmonitored for "omg terrorism" yet keeping a list of vaccinations for preventing a disease that has killed more people than all terrorists hits combined is dystopian.

All the conspiracy theories I've heard about the vaccine sound like child's play compared to a US airport.

[caeril]

Same reason we become much more animated when discussing abortion restriction, identification tattoos/implants, roadside blood draws, and other forms of abrogation of bodily autonomy.

There is an enormous difference in the personal sense of bodily violation between finding dildos in your checked luggage and being injected, against your will, with closed-source nucleotide chains that hack your own ribosomes.

Not to defend the TSA at all, but it's a much, much, more personal matter to have things done to our bodies than to our property.

[StavrosK]

"Things done to our bodies" describes all of medicine. Why the furore now? We already vaccinate all children and we agree that it's for the best, but when it comes to vaccinating adults to save them from the plague it's dystopian?

[caeril]

Well, we definitely don't vaccinate all children. US compliance rate for the seven-series is only 70%, and only 82% for the three-series (DTaP, Polio, MMR). So the culture of noncompliance even for fifty-year-old vaccine designs is still there.

That said, medicine is largely a voluntary affair. Nobody is getting up in arms over people choosing to get vaccinated; rather, they're bristling at the idea of being forced to do it, or at the very least suffering severe repercussions or going on a watchlist for choosing not to.

[ghthor]

Thanks for your response, I dont understand the downvotes.

[Kliment]

Sorry, but you do sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist. I suspect the reasoning for this measure is to prevent everyone calling them all the time to try and arrange a vaccination while there isn't enough vaccine available. Here in Germany they're doing the same thing (don't call us we'll call you) but are saying this is likely to change as more vaccine becomes available.

[bzb6]

The minister of health, Mr Illa, is not a doctor or anything like that. He has a degree on philosophy and is originally part of a party which wants to break up and harm Spain. He’s there because of quotas: the head of government is a psychopath who had to give positions of power to people of other parties so they would allow him to form government thus making him president.