| I am absolutely treating you like a "real human being" and in turn have the respect for you to point out that you are wrong and expect you to be able to handle that maturely. >including photographic evidence Yes, which I specifically addressed, and which you have in turn completely ignored. I've followed this as well, and through much more authoritative sources, but in this case your own example was the direct cite. You said "the photo from Germany" which must refer to the one there captioned "Starlink in Tübingen, Germany". But that photo clearly depicts a deployment train, not Starlink satellites fully deployed. Because they don't line up in a train like that in final operational status. That trains might be visible in photographs for a few weeks out of a 5 year lifetime is a very different argument. The caption also does not state what generation they were. >the surfaces of these satellites are often made of highly reflective metal Which is generic hogwash. We're not talking about "surfaces often made of" we're talking about Starlink, specifically. Which, as again your own link states: >"More recent satellites have visors to block sunlight from reflecting from parts of the satellite to reduce its albedo further." Operational satellites won't be in a train, will be oriented in ways that reduce reflections, and they're actively working on measures to further mitigate albedo. And a core aspect of Starlink is that they have a rapid lifecycle. The impact will probably not be zero, but that must be weighed against the benefits. And the benefits are huge. >But sure, you call me an "entitled and dismissive urbanite". I will indeed, because that is how you are acting. Your "Where do you live? In most of Europe and SE Asia you can get gigabit broadband" is flat out INSULTING. I (nor SpaceX for that matter) do not in fact live in Europe or SE Asia (and of course you're implying those outside "most of" are unimportant even there but whatever). I live in America near the Canadian border. I've been fortunate to have 5/1 ADSL from 2000 up until a few years ago with an ISP who were at least local and nice and only charged $45/month for it. Just 40 miles away I know people paying $270/month for 10 megabit service. Others have dial-up or horrible GEO sat internet options or nothing. Many friends in Canada are in the same boat, and that's in the developed part! Take a look at the official Canadian Government National Broadband Internet Service Availability Map: https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/sitt/bbmap/hm.html?lang=eng Take some time to go through a few of the layers if you like, but maybe for an initial gut check go to "Aggregated Presentation" and take a look just at "5/1" coverage. And then look at all the empty spots. You can live within 20 miles of the national capital and not even be able to be certain of 5/1 internet. America is in a similar boat, though without as reliable data because the FCC coverage maps are ludicrously generous to industry right now (if even a single household in an entire census block has broadband, the census block is "covered" yet even then massive numbers aren't). Frankly, even if it really did come down to your subjective feelings about "the night sky" versus decent broadband options for the entire planet? Well you lose. I personally don't think it will be that bad long term, because nobody wants it to be zero sum. There will be continued improvements in lowering albedo, and Starship's massive reduction in space access costs will allow vast new space-based telescope efforts. Heck, we might even ultimately actually get fiber and/or decent WISPs all over the planet, and thus be able to reduce constellations to just what is needed for marine/air. But the biggest "light pollution" sources for most of the public are ground lights, and astronomers are going to have to accept some compromises for a while because universal broadband is really genuinely important. |