[manfredo]

Usually at auction. Even poor quality, worn out registered automatics will run in the high thousands, or low tens of thousands because of constrained supply. This creates interesting dynamics where people take cheap (relatively, still ~$5,000 on the low end) legal automatics like MAC-10s and converting them to 5.56x45mm while retaining the original lower receiver.

Example:

https://youtu.be/YjrnB2cXSqM

[EGreg]

Wait wat?

These are legal somehow in USA? Can you please trace how and prove it with links?

[manfredo]

Automatic guns became regulated in the 1930s, and you need approval by the ATF to own them and they need to be registered. They're in a similar category as bombs, rocket launchers, and whatnot. They are strictly regulated and the government basically knows where each one is at all times.

In 1986, they stopped accepting new registrations for automatic guns. So there's a fixed supply of legal automatic firearms that normal people can own.

Read more here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act#:~:tex....

[stordoff]

> So there's a fixed supply of legal automatic firearms that normal people can own.

Why do people want them? Is it just a hobby, or is there some utility I'm unware of?

[yardie]

I'd say it's a hobby. Bullets are expensive in quantity. A full automatic can chew through $100 worth in just a minute. There are a few gun ranges near me that keep them available to rent. You can relive your A-Team / CoD dreams for a few hundred dollars.

Outside of the military they have no utility whatsoever.

[hansthehorse]

Full auto on an M16/AR15 will empty a 30 round magazine in a touch over 3 seconds. A few ranges near me will rent you a full auto AR but you have buy the ammunition from them.

[imtringued]

The primary benefit of high rate of fire is hitting a single moving target. Machine guns used to be particularly common in air to air combat. When you are a school shooter or bank robber you actually don't want to waste your ammo like that. The downsides of reloading are by far stacked against you. A soldier can just go back to base and reload his guns but a robber whose magazines have run out will just see his targets flee and his only opportunity slip away.

[sio8ohPi]

There are a few subgun matches, but IMHO it's mostly just people wanting anything the government says they can't have.

[joering2]

Just a nit pick: the government only knows where each item is so long as the owner has reported it moving around, as required per ATF laws. Wanted to mention this because someone may imagine there is a GPS attached to lower receiver of FA. If you travel with your fully automatic you need to report it to your local sheriff office (stating purpose as well); also when you move to a different city/county/state.

Another nit pick: the approval is not some sort of interview or questionnaire as of why you need it. There is so-called ATF stamp (i.e. $200 for silencer) than you need to submit altogether with FBI fingerprints. These days mojority of ATF applications is registered thru "trust", instead of an individual. This creates all sorts of issues for LE in case they want to run extra background on you etc. So 90-something % of people chose $50 ATF "trust" that Sheriff cannot technically decline over the other option which is petition as individual and getting close to 100% chance of denial. The biggest hurdle is not some LE not liking your tattoo, its that ATF has a year long backlog. So you pay for your FA $25,000 today but its only delivered to your local licensed gun store, and they won't let you pick it up until ATF sends them document with green light. That take sup to 1.5 year these days. You can come and touch it and take few photos but they will not allow you to load it of course, or to take it out (including shooting range).

Finally, as OT mentions fixed supply, a so-called lower receiver of a fully automatic gun, a piece of metal not much bigger than a door handle (which does not even have any fancy engineering) is literally the most expensive piece of metal that you can buy on American soil. Some examples in extremely good shape go for $35,000 these days (check gunbroker dot com)

[throwaway_dcnt]

Yes, I own a few in fact. Although I don't live in CA. It was quite an arduous journey too, the paperwork was lost twice, once by the local sheriff (who has to sign an affidavit saying he or she vouches for you) and subsequently by ATF who approve the paperwork and send you a tax stamp as proof of this approval. Interesting Americana for an immigrant like myself and I had to get these machine guns just because it is such an American thing to do.

[tomcam]

You are living the good life, my friend!

[dharmab]

It's simple.

~~The Assault Weapons Ban only applied to new guns.~~ ATF policy change, not AWB. Existing guns were grandfathered in.

Guns have many interchangeable parts. The part of the gun that the government considers to be the "legal definition" is a part called the lower receiver. You can change almost anything about a gun as long as you keep the lower receiver and comply with any other laws.

So if you buy an old MAC-10 lower receiver that was manufactured before the new ATF policy, and add an adapter [1] that allows it to be combined with the non-lower parts from an AR-15, you can create a completely legal Frankenrifle with mostly new parts!

This isn't even the craziest thing you can do with gun loopholes in the USA. "Pistol braces" [2], originally made for war veterans with amputations to shoot small rifles, have pretty much obsoleted restrictions on short-barreled rifles. "Ghost guns" [3], i.e. lower receivers that have no serial number and do not appear in any database, are easily made by anyone with access to CNC tools (including a few hours rental for a few hundred bucks). 3D printed pistols are becoming a thing [4], although they are not very durable.

1: https://aandsconversions.com/2018/11/25/the-next-big-thing-f...

2: https://www.sb-tactical.com/product-category/brace/

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_gun

4: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/jzik44/magdump_monday...

[manfredo]

The automatic weapons ban (specifically the 1986 Machine Gun Act) is distinct from the Assault Weapons Ban. The Assault Weapons Ban was in the 1990s and banned the sale of semi-automatic guns with certain shapes of grip, bayonet lugs, and other features. It did not ban anything based on magazine capacity, as is often stated. It expired in the 2000s since it had a sunset provision that made it last 10 years if not renewed.

[WillPostForFood]

It did not ban anything based on magazine capacity, as is often stated.

You are right, it was mostly a ban based on superficial features like the much feared bayonet mount. But there were two bans based on magazine capacity.

It did ban magazines with more than 10 round capacity. It also banned semi-automatic shotguns with more than 5 round fixed magazine or a detachable magazine when in combination with folding stock or pistol grip.

[spamizbad]

Restrictions on SBRs never made sense anyway: it was a hold-over from the NFA back when they wanted to include pistols as well, but ultimately ripped that out of the legislation.