[goto11]

The idea of "The West versus Islam" as a clash of civilization is pretty recent. Probably only appeared after the end of the cold war and gained steam after 9/11.

If you think of the crusades they were more like Roman Catholicism against Islam (and Judaism and Eastern Christianity). For example the crusaders attacked and plundered Constantinople which was Christian at the time - just not catholic.

England have certainly been to war with France more than it has been to war with "Islam".

[jariel]

The incursion of Islam, particularly by the Ottomans, was an long standing existential concern of European nations.

Remember the Ottomans took Constantinople in the 16th century (Capita of the E. Roman Empire aka Byzantium) and converted the largest Cathedral in the World into a Mosque.

The 'West' would have been referred to as 'Christendom' then, and the issue wasn't resolved until into the enlightenment, 1683, Battle of Vienna.

'Christendom v. Ottomans' is the original 'Cold War'.

One might argue that there are echoes in the Battle of Vienna in Lord of the Rings.

'Political Islam', as we've seen since the 1980's has basically nothing to do with any of that.

FYI a little known, crazy fact (which is likely but not infallibly accurate): you know your 'Croissant'? That delicacy was designed in Vienna by chefs in celebration of their victory in the battle, hence the crescent shape of the bread is literally the Islamic Crescent. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna [2] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/23/a-short....

[throwawaytolk]

This is just ... not even approaching the truth. only by studiously ignoring history and cherry picking facts could get to your arguement.

Christianity vs islam is a long theme in our history.

You badly misread the crusades as well - the crusaders and the byzantines collaborated. In fact, the byzantines welcomed the crusaders and often helped them in military matters - the crusaders states were used as a buffer from the armies of islam.

The crusaders did attack and plunder constantinople, but this was after the first crusades ; in fact, a couple decades before the sack Latins were sold into slavery and massacred by the byzantines. Reading a single event and turning it into a pattern for latin and byzantine relations in the era is at best sophomoric and at worst dissembling.

[wott]

You never heard of the 8th century Arab invasion of (present) Spain and invasion attempt of (present) France? It came as a conclusion of a century of Muslim conquests and attacks, and left just 2 small pockets in Asturias and the Pyrenees. They were quickly repelled from most of France (after coming as North as Poitiers or perhaps even Tours on the West flank, and as North as Burgondy on the East flank) except from a bit of the Mediterranean coast, but it took over 700 years to reclaim all Spain. The West (or North, or Europe) versus Islam and vice versa is really nothing new.

[goto11]

Sure you can group historical conflicts in many ways. If you say group all conflicts between Britain and opponents from continental Europe into a single conflict, surely you get a more protracted conflict than "West vs Islam", since you have at least 2000 years of conflict.

The "West vs Islam" is just a particular inane categorization since you are contrasting a geographic area with a religion. You could categorize the Reconquista as Christianity against Islam (and Judaism), and this is how it was framed at the time, but how can it be "the West" against Islam? It is a post-cold war construct to justify a certain ideology, not a meaningful way of understanding history.

[throwawaytolk]

You are the one revising history. The christiaindom vs islam story is well evidenced in history. you cannot disentangle western culture from the christian foundations upon which it rests.

[knolax]

Ah yes who could forget famous Christians like Aristotle and Caesar.