[bennysonething]

You definitely have a point. Though one thing I never understood was grindy type games. Growing up playing with my mates, Mario, Zelda , street fighter then Goldeneye, Tony hawk's. We just never came across them. Then final fantasy 7 came along, I remember my friend just left it back to the shop. Turn based combat and experience points made no sense to us at all. Few years later I tried playing Knights of the old Republic, it didn't feel like a game. It just felt really odd and awkward to me. Skip forward few years and this type game is huge. I don't get it and never will I guess! The bit I really don't get is you don't get better at the game by becoming more skillful but instead by spending time increasing xp on grindy tasks. One thing about games though, they can be sort of mindful: recently I went through a really hard month at work. I found playing old Ps1 racers helped me quickly unwind before bed. (Wipeout and gran turismo 1)

[muffinman26]

I'm exactly the opposite. I hated playing MarioKart, SuperSmash Bros, etc. because the game felt pointless and un-winnable. These games were based on acting fast and building up reflexes. Since I was only borrowing my friends' game consoles and they could practice whenever they wanted, there was no way I could ever catch up.

I loved planning the most efficient/comprehensive path to achieve a goal in World of Warcraft or Knights of the Old Republic and then executing on the plan. I could think about what I wanted to do when I didn't have access to the game. Playing the game was really only an afterthought to test out the plan I'd come up with.

[newsgourmet]

I stopped playing Ultima Online (same led designer as Knights of the old Repbulic iirc) when I did the math and realized to become Master Alchemist, I would have to mix 3000 potions, always with the same repetitive clicks.

[baby]

Every game can become grindy if you abuse them. I used to play counter strike and I would just grind grind grind. Playing deathmatch again and again, practicing your aim on specific maps (aim_usp, aim_aztec, etc.)

[gwd]

But this is a different definition of "grind". After spending an hour practicing your aim on a specific map, your aim will actually be better. That's not any different than spending an hour practicing shooting hoops from a specific angle / distance, or spending an hour practicing musical scales.

I think when most people talk about "grind" in games, they mean activities that are genuinely only time-wasters. You don't gain any skill (other than patience) from killing your hundredth goblin or clicking "harvest" on your hundredth field.

[baby]

True, there's a skill grind, and a level/gear up grind