[thatguy0900]

The reality is there's just a lot of guys who are very undateable. Will any revision of gender roles get a girl to go out with a unfunny, unattractive guy who's grown addicted to pornography and isn't interested in furthering his career? There are females in that position too, but it isn't looked at with the same seriousness.

[scarmig]

Dateability isn't a static category; gender roles determine dateability. E.g. there's no particular reason "interested in furthering his career" needs to be a universal component of attraction.

As a real life counterexample, there are pretty much no gay incels. That's not because there aren't unattractive gay gays, and there are certainly winners and losers in that dating market and consequent bitterness. But the variety of male types that are considered potentially attractive is much broader.

[thatguy0900]

I guess I would ask if they arent incel in the sense that they can get a one night stand or in the sense that they can get a fulfilling long term relationship. If all gay gays can get in real long term relationships easily that is interesting

[Vrondi]

If you could convince incel types to see women as actual people (not objects they are entitled to own), and as a consequence to see more types of women as desirable (not only the most model-like or mainstream media-like), then far more of them would find affection. But then again, if you could change those personality traits, they wouldn't be incels.

[scarmig]

I think this is a pretty lazy answer, and it projects to reality assumptions that aren't in evidence. It's convenient, because it puts all the blame on the people struggling because they're evil and as such unworthy of social consideration. But it's just a rationalization to say that the main reason some men struggle is because they believe that women are their slaves and because they only pursue Instagram models.

[selestify]

Indeed, speaking from personal experience the stereotype is a pretty false one. Then again maybe I’m just not hanging out in the circles where stereotypical incels hang out.

I think the best description I’ve read here is https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-roman...