[hourislate]

>Germany still has a strong industrial base

It's because they build the machines to build the product the Chinese manufacture. The Germans have forced themselves to be at the top of the Manufacturing Food Chain (engineering, etc) while letting the Chinese/Rest of the world build the crap we buy.

I don't think we could get there manufacturing the "Trinkets" the Chinese mostly manufacture, that is a a race to the bottom where either automation or cheap labor win.

[incrudible]

Your impression of China manufacturing "mostly Trinkets" is decades out of date.

Chinese manufacturing is now at a very high level, to the point where many western brands have effectively become "fabless", leveraging the fact that Chinese brands still struggle with poor reputation even domestically. In this symbiotic relationship, the fact that Germany is literally "the land of virtue" in Chinese might play a role.

Chinese labor has now too become relatively expensive, its economy is moving to become a service economy, and manufacturing gets outsourced from China to even cheaper countries.

[hakfoo]

What I always wondered: are German products that much better, or is it a meme?

The thought that comes to mind is when American railways tried to import German locomotives in the 1960s. They were appealing because they offered higher horsepower ratings than anything domestic, but they required too much babying and maintenance to keep healthy and were quickly scrapped. I hear strikingly similar things from people buying German cars today-- everything tends to be expensive to keep running after the warranty expires.

I wonder if American manufacturing needs to develop its own meme. I'd suggest the old line about GM products-- they'll run poorly for a lot longer competing products run at all. That could be a compelling argument when you're selling to a manufacturing sector that's rolling out in low-development countries with unstable infrastructure, poor environmental conditions, and low-training staff.

That gives us a niche we can target and use as a base to re-bootstrap ourselves into competitiveness. We need to be decidedly better than bottom-bit Chinese (etc.) tooling, which is probably still within our abilities, and if we overdeliver there, we can begin to position American-made as a premium choice.

[count]

A large part of the expense on the cars is import tariffs and shipping/freight expense. Upkeep on a German car in Germany is substantially less expensive.

[geitir]

All I know is I've been in an Audi and the center console had so much unnecessary stuff going on. It's a stereotype for a reason German stuff is performant and precise but over engineered

[tachyonbeam]

Tesla is trying to do exactly what you describe. Build "the machine that builds the machine", as Elon Musk would say.

I agree with you that trying to compete on low-cost, low-margin is a race to the bottom. We could conceivably bring manufacturing of iPhones back to America. I would also imagine that manufacturing of silicon is largely automated, so the US could try to build the best fabs.

[te_chris]

Tesla has done some reverse Chinese equity investment swap thing and is now at least somewhat a Chinese company building manufacturing capacity and innovation in EVs. Musk is a lot of things, and one thing is clear: he’s an opportunist more than a US economic nationalist. He will not be the saviour of American industry.

[kamaal]

>>one thing is clear: he’s an opportunist more than a US economic nationalist. He will not be the saviour of American industry.

Reading this as a non-American. Isn't 'opportunity' the whole reason behind immigration?

If your country relies on continuous supply of heroes and not sound systems and policies, no one single person can save you.

[te_chris]

Hey I’m a non American too, and Musk himself is South African, which is kind of my point.

[tachyonbeam]

Please clarify what you mean by "Chinese equity investment swap thing".

[te_chris]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4339781-teslas-transformati...

[andrekandre]

> he’s an opportunist more than a US economic nationalist

its called being a capitalist; anyone leaving money (capital) on the table by favoring thier home country will get squashed by those who dont...

[roenxi]

The number of powerful economic nationalists in US history can be counted - if the US is lucky - on one hand.

Assuming that the goal is saving the American industry (whatever that means) - if the plan is 'good people will save it' then failure is already baked in. That plan never works. The plan should be 'whoever saves it will become fabulously and disgustingly wealthy' - then greedy opportunists will save it for you and people can go protest about how greedy they are.

Relying on good people to act is dicey. Relying on greedy people to act is a safe path.