[almost_usual]

> Cynthia Yeung, an industry veteran who spent five years at Google, put it bluntly: "Maybe the trade-off should be more clearly spelled out so researchers can make informed decisions before they accept a job offer: You get paid academic salaries in exchange for intellectual freedom, and you get paid Silicon Valley salaries in exchange for allowing your name/likeness to be used for brand/PR purposes and your research to be censored arbitrarily."

That seems like common sense.

[bra-ket]

this case had nothing to do with censorship though. It was Gebru' unprofessional conduct - she gave ultimatum to her managers demanding to disclose names of the reviewers who criticized her work or she would resign, and broadcasting emails to entire team literally calling for sabotage.

Her behavior fits the definition of 'toxic employee', it was unprofessional by any standard.

Here is Jeff Dean's letter sent to the Google Research team with the details of what actually happened: :https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f2kYWDXwhzYnq8ebVtuk9CqQ...

[malcolmgreaves]

> Here is Jeff Dean's letter sent to the Google Research team with the details of what actually happened: :https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f2kYWDXwhzYnq8ebVtuk9CqQ...

You choose to trust the words of the man that did the firing vs. the corroborated stories of dozens of Google Brain researchers that contradict his corporate messaging. Don't take corporate's word as "what happened:" that's about as naive as taking a police's side as the "truth."

[bra-ket]

>"corroborated" stories of dozens

It's a "boy who cried wolf" for me. I've seen these activists promoting lies to us the entire summer of protests for completely made-up causes. I've seen them distorting facts and pushing misinformation through media. I've also seen them bullying people via social media 'witch hunts', which is happening now with Jeff Dean, Nando de Freitas and whoever stands in their way.

The whole activism movement is toxic and whoever brings it to the workplace.

[amanaplanacanal]

By “these activists” you are referring to the Google brain researchers? Or somebody else?

[malcolmgreaves]

> The whole activism movement is toxic and whoever brings it to the workplace.

Why do you find people that are putting in the work to bring fairer, more just, and more even-handed application of human rights to all corners of society "toxic"?

What are you afraid of, or believe is "toxic", by removing the gap in privilege* that exists between white men and everyone else?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_privilege#History

[bra-ket]

The ends do not justify the means.

What I see is a bunch of bullies forcing their opinions on everyone else, spreading lies and propaganda on media, attacking and 'cancelling' anyone who stands in their way.

Whatever seed of 'social justice' motivation was there, the activist movement completely discredited themselves, and the ideas they so aggressively promote. And the more I interact with them the more it seems their primary motivation is promoting themselves.

[krageon]

If you push someone until you know they will break by being difficult and stupid to them you lose the ability to point to them and say "well that's unprofessional". Given that this is a company vs a person, odds are better than 90% that they just wanted to be rid of her and pushed her until they could.

[xyzzyz]

Sadly, there is no intellectual freedom in academic world either. These days, the only way to intellectual freedom left is anonymity, and even then you have to be careful to not be doxed by New York Times.

[waihtis]

There is intellectual freedom if you have enough cash in the bank to last you a lifetime. Then, feel free to offend anyone with your opinions as you cannot die from starvation.

[marcus_holmes]

ah, the "gentleman scientists" of whom we hear so much when learning scientific history.

[waihtis]

No room for gentlemen scientists when there are plethoras of people out there who will happily crucify you and negate everything you've achieved if you happen to have the slightest social dent in your image.

To be untouchable be openly degenerate & filthy rich.

[Ansil849]

> doxed by New York Times.

Are you thinking of any specific case where the Times doxed someone for practicing intellectual freedom?

[niij]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-...

[dekhn]

they never published any article, and he admits he was trivially de-anonymizable so I think he overstates his case.

[thrweor234324]

More like New Reich Times.