[aye01]

I have a different take on this. I'm an apple machine user. I work on an iMac Pro everyday and have used mac/ios for over a decade. But i've also extensively used Android, Windows, Linux etc extensively.

From what I've experienced it is true that when using apple with apple, it just works. that is true and i won't dispute that. they own the ecosystem so they can handle the integration well, obiously. But the opposite is also true. When using apple with non apple, it (sometimes) just doesn't work or works poorly. When i use the same device on Windows or Android (linux is a different beast), it just works when it won't with iOS or Mac. and sometimes i just want to use a brand thats not apple...

I think for many apple users these days, they believe that Android/Windows still have the problems they faced back in 2009 and havent extensively used either since switching.

Android pairs newer bluetooth devices essentially the same way apple pairs airpods now and windows doesnt still have all the issues from windows vista that made them switch in the first place and has support for way more devices than apple ever will.

I'm not trying to make the point that one is better than the other, my point for apple users is that the experience on windows/android isn't as bad as they think it is and my point for windows/android users is that you're not missing out on much or anything at all from the apple ecosystem.

Buy devices that fit your use case and budget. its as simple as that.

[freedomben]

I think you've nailed it. I also made this observation. So many time I'll be talking to another dev about macOS v. linux for example, and they'll say something like, "I don't want to have to compile my kernel" or they'll describe something that makes it clear they haven't tried any Linux distro in a long time. I'll usually ask, "when was the last time you tried it?" and at that point they'll usually realize what they're doing and say something like, "It's been probably 15 years, maybe things are better now?"

Yes, things are better. If I compared the first iPhone to an Pixel 4, the iPhone isn't going to compare nicely. It's always worth making sure you are comparing apples to apples (no pun intended ;-))

[BlackFingolfin]

I've recently given Linux another try, for use on a machine meant as a media server, and also to drive my family "video call station" (i.e., combine big TV, webcam and a bluetooth audio widget with mic and speakers so that the kids can talk to their grandparents in COVID times). Went with the most main stream distro, Ubuntu 20.04.

Result: couldn't get the Bluetooth conference widget working. Googled around for hours and tried all kinds of things, including compiling and installing kernel modules and replacing the bluetooth stack. Nothing worked. No, this is not an exotic non-standard protocol, it's a standard one (I think aptX or so? sorry, forgot the details again already; but I googled around and found lots of people with similar issues, and then many "solutions", none of which worked; see above)

Anyway, I am back to plugging in my MacBook each time we want to video conference, and will soon install Windows on the media server (no matter how much I hate the thought).

I really want to use Linux for this kind of stuff, but it's 2020 and I can't get a Bluetooth widget working that works flawlessly on various Macs, Windows machines, iPhone, iPad and an Android phone.

So while things may be better, they are still far from where they could be, I am afraid.

[llampx]

I'm far from a Linux proponent but if I were you I'd try to just add a regular 3.5mm mic and use the TV speakers.

But yeah, much much simpler solution to just install Windows on it.

[lostlogin]

> I've recently given Linux another try, for use on a machine meant as a media server

Your media server is doing a lot more than serving up music/movies/tv isn’t it? If not, it’s hard to go past Plex or Kodi.

Is video calling a thing that people call on a media server for?

I’d be airplaying to the tv, but that’s going the Apple route.

[BlackFingolfin]

With "media server" I generally meant: "device hooked up to the speaker and AV receiver for video playback, couch surfing, perhaps the occasional game (mostly via emulators).

Yeah, adding the microphone and camera is going beyond that, but it's convenient to use the computer already hooked to the TV instead of, you know, hooking up yet another one. Also, how does Airplay give me access to the camera mounted on top of the TV (an old phone, BTW)? Also, how is that relevant for my comment at all? :-)

[lostlogin]

Airplay can share a screen and through that it can share a FaceTime call - or at least I thought it could and Googling suggests it can. This entirely depends on your ‘old phone’ being an iPhone.

www.macrumors.com/how-to/mirror-facetime-call-apple-tv-airplay-2-smart-tv/amp/

> Also, how is that relevant

It isn’t particularly, I’d just never heard of a media server doing video chat and was wondering about it.

[SECProto]

I tried Linux recently (Ubuntu, I believe it was 19.10 but might've been 18.04 lts). Within minutes of booting I was searching for answers to questions that one should never have to ask (specifically, it was something to do with sound - it wasn't outputting or it was going over HDMI instead of the plugged in Aux Jack.) Linux may have gotten better, but it feels just as unfinished and confusing to me as it did 20 years ago when I first booted knoppix.

[lostlogin]

Oh it’s plenty obtuse, but you can get a lot working in a very reliable fashion. My daily driver is a Mac but Ubuntu is great for messing about - it really is baffling how simple things can turn into hours of pain though.

[imron]

> they'll describe something that makes it clear they haven't tried any Linux distro in a long time.

I use Linux for work.

In Ubuntu 20 air pod pros still don’t pair properly - I can use the earphones but not the headset microphone.

Then there are minor annoyances like plugging in an external monitor and keyboard to a closed laptop (thinkpad) and not having it wake up (need to open and close the case), or closing the case but then the power management doesn’t work properly so if it’s not plugged in to power, then when I open it the next day the battery is drained and the laptop has shutdown - losing any unsaved state.

Finally (and this is the main one preventing me from using Linux on my personal laptop) Chinese fonts on Linux are awful. Not only are the default fonts ugly but applications do a poor job of rendering them, often getting baselines offsets between subsequent characters wrong, making characters on the same line jump around.

It’s altogether a subpar experience especially compared to macOS.

[freedomben]

> In Ubuntu 20 air pod pros still don’t pair properly - I can use the earphones but not the headset microphone.

Do you really blame Linux over Apple for that? Bluetooth on Linux isn't great, that's totally true, but a big source of problems is the device makers. They often test against only the system they are targeting, and leave the rest. Nearly every bluetooth implementation has issues, but the Linux one is never tested/developed with like others.

> Then there are minor annoyances like plugging in an external monitor and keyboard to a closed laptop (thinkpad) and not having it wake up (need to open and close the case), or closing the case but then the power management doesn’t work properly so if it’s not plugged in to power, then when I open it the next day the battery is drained and the laptop has shutdown - losing any unsaved state.

I agree, this is insanely stupid. By all means I don't think things are perfect yet, but they are definitely better than they used to be. There are also easy things you can do to avoid these things, such as sleeping your laptop from the Gnome widget (or just run `systemctl suspend -i`) and it works every time. just open the lid to resume working. It's annoying that you have to do that for sure, but in my opinion learning simple workflow changes like that aren't a big deal in exchange for the FLOSS aspects, but everyone is different. Choice is what makes things great!

[imron]

> Do you really blame Linux over Apple for that?

I don't blame anyone, and I understand the reasons, but at the end of the day I still can't use devices I can use everywhere else, and I'm reminded of that daily when I need to plug wired headphones in instead.

Power-management issues I've learned to work around - but again is something that requires regular actions/changes in behaviour that serve as a continual reminder that there are issues.

Chinese font issues I've given up on entirely and I just have the UI in English.

Don't get me wrong, macOS has plenty of issues too, and it feels like the overall software quality has been in a gradual state of decline for at least a decade, but it doesn't have the same continual reminders of issues that I get when using Linux, and the fonts always look nice regardless of language.

[sambe]

I recently had an SSD failure and tried using Ubuntu 20.10 to fix my (heavily tweaked to get things mostly-working) older Ubuntu installation. After many hours fiddling with startup settings I still cannot get the live USB to boot to anything other than a black screen. This is a ~2008 graphics card with mature open source drivers. I can get a console if using safe graphics mode but then no network connectivity either. Who knows about sound, haven't got there yet. All the same issues as 15-20 years ago.

When I was last using this machine regularly, most biannual upgrades broke one of these three things anyway (and, no: the tweaks were not obscure things that caused the breakage, and several failed attempts were made to revert them, report them, or look into the causes, and they obviously don't affect the live USB).

[SZJX]

On earphones I reserve my judgement since my Sony 1000XM2 works really well and I don't have advanced needs like switching devices constantly or sharing the audio with another person.

On desktop OS or smartphone I cannot agree with this sentiment though. I used Arch Linux (arguably the best Linux experience I've had by far) on Thinkpad for 3 years and used Nexus/Pixel for 5+ years. Starting from last year I finally had enough and switched back to Macbook + iPhone. God were the devices much, much reliable and my life much easier. At least I didn't have to worry about random stuffs like Bluetooth disconnection, lack of proper HiDPI support or the camera taking 5 seconds to start/simply freezing.

[IggleSniggle]

I am super excited to be jumping back into Linux as of this month. But I will say, even though the issues are different, I still have a lot of issues. Things do not "just work." Some of that is simple expectation setting.

With Linux, you know that something can work if you just give it enough elbow grease. The same is true on macOS, but the ecosystem does not tempt you unless its something you actually need. On Linux, the ecosystem says, "oh, that weird thing you want to do you? YES! You can do it! It's normal! Go for it!" And then you do, and you have issues, and everyone is like "oh that sucks but also you were trying to do a weird thing." The blessed path is less clear.

[ixacto]

Have taken the blessed path on Ubuntu 20.04LTS with a Lenovo workstation, however on updating the bootloader spontaneously decided to Bork itself. Could possibly try and fix it, however this is not something I want to mess with right now so currently using WSL v2 and Docker on Windows 10 and not having any problems. It is nice to be able to add 2/4/8gb of storage and 128gb of ram for dirt cheap, something that is not possible with a mac though.

[random5634]

Or simpler to buy from a brand I trust?

Seriously- who is more likely to put app ads in my start menu (candy crush and friends) when I pay for the ‘pro’ version of their os? Apple or windows?

Can you guarantee my Samsung TV won’t start showing me ads? Hint - they already do.

My next Samsung smart phone from Verizon won’t have trash bloat ware on it and won’t prompt me endlessly for Samsung pay?

That I can get an item fixed easily at any of their retail stores?

Sure - stuff out there works - but figuring out the perfect phone carrier / phone provider for example is annoying. Where is download boost on Verizon? Oh, it’s disabled.

Even apples phone experience is much more consistent across all carriers. Why these other folks bundle 10 Verizon and another batch of junk themselves as user value enhancing boggles my mind

[nickpp]

I got 3 ads in the Settings app when upgrading to my new iPhone 12: for Music, Games and TV I think.

Shame on you, Apple.

[llampx]

Yeah, it seems Apple has figured out the way to make people accept their ads and upselling - brand everything Apple.

[mbreese]

> Android pairs newer bluetooth devices essentially the same way apple pairs airpods now

This isn’t really the part of Apple’s Bluetooth that I appreciate. What I find immensely useful is when you want to switch the headphones from one device to another. Apple’s solution isn’t 100% accurate, but on any given day, it’s common for me to switch my AirPod Pros from my phone to my watch to my laptop to my Apple TV. Before I switched over to all Apple gear, I needed to either spend 5 minutes re-pairing my headphones or (what I really did) have dedicated Bluetooth headphones for my TV.

This is the major benefit for me... the seamless switching, not the pairing.

[fomine3]

Nowadays we can switch a device connect to headphone by connecting from the device. It's not good as like Apple's proprietary solution, but the rest of the world is also improving since 2010. I also like NFC but it's less adopted.

[llampx]

My Sony headphones and cheap phone have NFC but even expensive laptops don't.