[triceratops]

> That claim is still valid. Have you worked with designers?

Yes. I have. I'm telling you that people with zero knowledge of programming can write Hello World in 10 minutes if you teach them. That's why I'm calling your statement elitist nonsense, because it is.

I was asking you what you think a "scripting" language is, not what Wikipedia says it is.

[hutzlibu]

"if you teach them"

Yeah well, lots of javascript programmers are not formally taught. That is still the point.

Anyone can write C programms if taken by the hand. But not without.

But allmost anyone can write javascript without being taken by the hand.

You just open the console/integrated dev tools.

Type in some commands you see on some website - voila, first programm. Then you can make experiments on the fly - because, wait for it - scripting language.

The enviroment is already there and you manipulate it with some scripts. You see immediately what works and what not.

In C you have to build your enviroment. Means setting up compiler etc. .. which means knowing the terminal or setting up complex software with nonintuitive design. Many ways of fail for the unguided beginner before the first programm succesfully compiles and .. then it still can fail on runtime.

Is that difference so hard to grasp?

[triceratops]

> Anyone can write C programms if taken by the hand

A textbook is hardly "taken by the hand". But never mind that.

> You just open the console/integrated dev tools.

And how does someone with zero knowledge of web programming know these even exist?

> Type in some commands you see on some website - voila, first programm

Right. How is this any different from a JS programmer looking up "Hello world" on a C programming website?

> The enviroment is already there and you manipulate it with some scripts

How do you know what "scripts" to try if you've never written JS?

> Then you can make experiments on the fly - because, wait for it - scripting language.

As opposed to...saving a .c file and re-running a single compile command? That's not a huge barrier.

> You see immediately what works and what not.

Does a Hello World program in C take multiple minutes to compile and run?

> Means setting up compiler etc. .. which means knowing the terminal or setting up complex software with nonintuitive design

Lmao at "knowing the terminal" and "setting up compiler". These "designers" you scoff at use Macbooks. Which have a perfectly operational terminal and clang installed by default. I can tell someone in once sentence how to open a terminal, compile and run a C file. I've personally taught multiple designers how to use a terminal. We're allowed to assume that "designers" know how to open a text file and save it right? Or does that take more "math and engineering" knowledge than the average designer has?

> Many ways of fail for the unguided beginner before the first programm succesfully compiles

More than for an unguided beginner writing JS? I doubt it.

As someone who writes C++ for a living, I think you should re-examine your beliefs about C and JS programmers' ability and proficiency.

[hutzlibu]

As someone who writes JS for a living, I think you should re-examine your beliefs about C and JS programmers' ability and proficiency.

Or just actually try to teach people JS and then try to teach them C++.