[BillGoates]

You not agreeing with my statement, is only because you decided for yourself what you see as a minor or a major inconvenience. But you cannot project your belief system onto others. People should always have the choice to decide what works for them or not. Political or social pressure in any way is unhealthy. Period.

At this point saying that there is zero doubt at this is 100% untrue. To put it mildly, the scientific community is divided on this topic.

Till now hacker news has been my safe haven from politics and propaganda. I am sorry to see that going away also.

[GavinMcG]

Now who's taking the extreme position? But your accusation applies just as well to you: putting individual choice before anything else will make the life we live impossible.

Should I get to choose whether taxes work for me or not? Sure be nice to take advantage of all the public resources without having to pay for them, at least until everyone else catches up.

Should I get to choose whether criminal law works for me or not? Sure be nice to take what I want and shoot anyone who tries to come after me, at least until we're all at each others throats.

People who are taking unnecessary risks aren't just projecting their belief systems onto others, they're threatening their health and their lives. Social pressure has its place against people who threaten us, because it's better than not having a society at all.

[AndrewUnmuted]

> Now who's taking the extreme position?

No. There is nothing extreme about:

>> you cannot project your belief system onto others

>> People should always have the choice to decide

>> Political or social pressure in any way is unhealthy.

You know what _is_ extreme? This is extreme.

> Should I get to choose whether taxes work for me or not?

Thinking that no people or entities make the very deliberate choice to not pay any taxes is not only extreme, it's blindingly and overwhelmingly untrue. We see people complaining all the time on HN about how Amazon, Walmart, etc., get away with not paying any taxes through their expert utilization of accounting, legal loopholes and insider access.

> Should I get to choose whether criminal law works for me or not? Sure be nice to take what I want and shoot anyone who tries to come after me, at least until we're all at each others throats.

It is indefensibly extreme to suggest this is not happening every day. I just wrote in my prior post how NYC's rapid increase in senseless violent crime is the actual pandemic here.

This summer during lockdown I was walking back from the grocery store and got randomly assaulted - punched in the face numerous times - by a complete stranger, who took nothing from me before running away. This is happening all the time now - in all regions of the world.

> People who are taking unnecessary risks aren't just projecting their belief systems onto others, they're threatening their health and their lives.

You are in no way certified to claim who is taking a risk and what constitutes that being a risk.

> it's better than not having a society at all

What we have now is the absence of society. And it's the most wretched, inexcusably grotesque thing I have ever seen governments do to their own citizens.

If this is the way life continues on Earth, who will truly want to live on it?

[BillGoates]

Now we are getting somewhere. Yes, neither option works.

The points you mention should be open to debate, based on open and truthful information.

And if the points of view are so incompatible that no reasonable solution is possible maybe we should go our different ways. Why not have state without police. There are states or countries with little to none taxes, or villages where you can walk around nude.

But if we keep going into the direction we are going now, things will become very grim. One way or another a side will try to force their opinion upon others. And the price the other side has to pay could be unrealistically high. You cannot ask someone to starve to death for your sense of safety.

[JKCalhoun]

> People should always have the choice to decide what works for them or not.

Not really. Not when they participate in a society.

If you're alone on an island, I grant you that your personal choices have no effect on others. For the rest of the world though....