[Raro]

I like the suggestion of the analogy in general. But a metaphor I'd use is a feedback system with a very long delay and very low decay constant. So definitely cyclic from that perspective! The signal chain is often split by guitarists with a dedicated A/B box too. So a fuller analogy would be a more complex pipeline.

[whatrocks]

Yeah, my analogy is definitely hampered by my novice-level guitar chops.

I'm definitely intrigued by the idea of better understanding these complex signal pipelines. In fact, a usesthis.com style website that shows the pedal box arrangements and signal flow diagrams for various guitarists would be a website I'd quite enjoy visiting.

[InitialLastName]

Not guitar-oriented, but modulargrid.net has some big people on it (often obscured for security purposes).

You can occasionally see guitarists' signal flows and stopbox arrays in interviews etc, but the truth is usually obscured by prestige, sponsorship concerns, and the logistics of touring.

[Raro]

Thank you for this.

I am currently bread-boarding two guitar pedals for myself, and there is great discussion on modulargrid.net on filtering.

> You can occasionally see guitarists' signal flows and stopbox arrays in interviews etc

It's amazing how much influence these interviews have. They have, in the past, directly led to surges in demand for, e.g. the Klon Centaur and variacs.

[InitialLastName]

Trust me, people in the pedal-making industry know exactly how much influence those interviews have, and that's why they put so much effort into making those artists happy.

[bonzini]

They don't make them "as happy" as you might imagine. Even a guitarist that is good enough to do European tours and get an endorsement deal will get discounts of 20% (on pretty expensive stuff for which they would have to fork out 2000 euros), maybe 30% on bespoke instruments that cost even more.

[InitialLastName]

I'm not imagining, but a 20% endorsement deal and (in the cases I know about) a much more direct line to an artist rep for customer support in lieu of going through the customer support process isn't too bad.

Hell, I've gone to shows for the sole purpose of hand-delivering the artist a replacement product.

[Raro]

On the contrary, I personally think the suggestion is a useful thought exercise.

There are a lot of interviews in Guitar magazine on the total rig used by particular guitarists. For example: https://guitar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/rig-diagram-Ma...

Of course, this includes the whole signal chain, including the pick!

[bigiain]

I find this one fascinating:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ECPsHpI_Q

Jon Gomm's pedal board - set up for his acoustic guitar which has 3 different pickups all sending seperate signals to his pedal board, and with different eq and effects applied to each pickup.

(And to see an amazing performance of that in use, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vCcZIARw9k )

[Raro]

Thanks for that! This is right up my alley. The signal separation makes sense, as the three pick-ups each provide a different sound, but none emulate the live experience quite so well.

The under-the-saddle piezo acts as an accelerometer right at the termination point of the string. So it gets every partial without any real damping, so they tend to sound far too bright. You're directly picking up vibrations that tend to be damped by the time they go through the impedance matching system that is a live guitar (i.e. acoustic radiation from a few feet or more in front of the soundboard). Fishman often roll their piezos off a lot to de-emphasize the upper partials, because it sounds so bright.

The humbucker is effectively a velocirometer, and is around a quarter of the scale length along, so it sounds a lot more mellow than the piezo, but picks up on different things. It also doesn't get the damping that the string-wood-air interface tends to bring, and also doesn't pick up on the neat interactions the instrument has with the internal and external air elements (for example, the Helmholtz and pipe modes of the air in the internal cavity).

The internal mic does sample the interaction the guitar has with the air. But it misses out on the higher radiation modes, which tend to be radiated out the front of the guitar. So it sounds very 'boomy'. It's convenient, for a mic, but doesn't sound great by itself.

In combination, these sound pretty good! But still doesn't emulate the 'real thing'. Hence Jon also mentions the use of external mics too. That, in addition to the separate channel for the octave pedal!