[mikem170]

There's also nothing virtuous or efficient about the typical modern middle-class American lifestyle, double the house size of fifty years ago, three cars, college as status symbol, etc.

I think most people would say that all this new efficiency is crushing peoples souls. Isn't everyone talking about the loneliness of the modern age, the scary amount of people who are depressed at any time, hiding with drugs, the loss of clubs and other social institutions?

I tend to think that we've been selling our soul for efficiency. We'd have so much free time if we we didn't need to consume so much.

[polishdude20]

That first paragraph is funny. More and more young people are renting more than ever. Three cars to a household is not common.

Although, yes I do agree that wanting to consume and have more items is causing us to suffer.

[crazygringo]

Absolutely none of that has to do with how efficient your grocery shopping is.

What you choose to spend your extra time on is your choice. But that's the point -- it should be your choice to be able to spend it on hanging out with friends, rather than standing in long lines waiting to buy food.

If you want to spend in on working extra hours to buy a third car, I mean that's your choice too I guess. But it's not like wasting your life waiting in line is any better.

[mikem170]

I'll try to clarify/refine where I'm coming from: Systemically we as a culture care more about our quick cheese than we do about the hundred of years of trash. Ideally the price of the fancy cheese and everything else should include the cost of disposal, and right now it doesn't, and that's not right.

Would you agree?

I do believe that our culture is too focused on economic efficiency, and ignoring numerous consequences of that. That might be a separate discussion?

[souprock]

Quality packaging reduces spoilage, and thus reduces waste. A stack of slices wrapped up by a deli will spoil long before individually sealed slices.

Longer shelf life enables efficient shipping and shopping, which reduces trips taken. This counts towards fuel use, road wear, and vehicle wear.

Counting both the waste and the product that gets used, the total cost is a rough approximation of environmental impact. The less you spend, the lower your impact.

[souprock]

I got three cars so I could be more efficient. Use the right size for the job.

For minor little trips around town, I use the Fiat 500L. It has 5 seats in 2 rows.

For high speed, or a bit more stuff, I use the Subaru Ascent. It has 8 seats in 3 rows.

For traveling with the whole family, I use the Ford E-350 extended-length passenger van. It has 15 seats in 5 rows.

Before I bought the smaller cars, I had to drive the van everywhere. It's a beast, 3 tons empty or 5 tons full. I think I get about 12 MPG, which is efficient per-person when I'm bringing a dozen kids. As a commuter car, the van is horrible.