[untog]

When it comes to their webcam: absolutely yes. You can get the exact camera they sell on Alibaba. That said, the software on the Alibaba versions is awful. I think their business model makes sense here: buy commodity hardware, make your own, better, software.

(though to be honest their iOS app isn't great. But still)

[woofie11]

I'd pay good money if I had Chinese hardware with secure, privacy-guaranteeing software. I'd buy the smart watch right now if it was either open-source, it came with a strong privacy policy.

As is, I see no reason to upload my health information to a random corporation.

Indeed, I can see plenty of business models where I could give away smartwatches and cameras for the wealth of data I'd collect. Selling still makes more sense; you want people to have a vested interest in them.

[_emacsomancer_]

have a look at gadgetbridge, no need to upload anything anywhere

[balls187]

What about Apple's privacy do you disagree with?

[woofie11]

For example: "It may be necessary − by law, legal process, litigation, and/or requests from public and governmental authorities within or outside your country of residence − for Apple to disclose your personal information. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate."

Why would I want my health data uploaded to an Apple server to be shared with governments?

My data should live on my own devices, encrypted, and unaccessible to anyone other than myself.

[balls187]

Thanks. I agree with your concern. Apple's support answer paints a different picture.

"Your HealthKit data, including your health records, remains under your complete control. You can choose to use iCloud to keep your data up to date across your devices, choose to share your data with a third-party app, choose to share your data with Apple under the Improve Health Records program, or choose to back up your data to an iTunes encrypted backup on your computer."

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209519

I interpret this to mean we maintain full control who and where your health information is stored. It's only stored on your device, unless you chose to share it with other apps, and/or use iCloud to sync across devices.

As an American, if I am being honest, I trust Apple far more than I would a Chinese company--given what I understanding about the CCP.

[woofie11]

I trust Apple as much as I trust Yahoo or Google. Which is to say, Google was honest 5-10 years ago, and Yahoo was honest 15-20 years ago. Apple is honest today, but whether it's honest in 5-10 years is TBD.

This document is a little bit better than the general privacy policy, but I'd still want to be asked. "By default, iCloud automatically keeps your Health app data, including health records, up to date across your devices." This is different from your interpretation (opt-in versus opt-out).

Call me a cynic, but I read this as "We might upload your data to Apple if you miss something walking through configuration screens, or if you an app somehow gets your data before you've toggled a setting. Our next default update might include a default-insecure setting for new types of data you'll never find out about without navigating our screens." Google does this all the time; they start collecting new information, and provide an opt-out, but by the time I opt-out, they've scarfed a ton of my data. I assume it's in a backup somewhere.

Apple says they do end-to-end encryption, but key exchange is an honor system. As I understand, Apple could set up a new iPhone in-house connected to my account, and have it sync up my data (with end-to-end encryption), scarfing up all of my data. Apple could be compelled to do this with a court order, or might change privacy policies in 5 years.

The nice thing about open source is that I don't need to trust. I trust Apple today, but it's not an ecosystem I'd buy into right now. The upsides of monitoring my health are far outweighed by the downsides of privacy and security risks that brings. That goes for Chinese companies too. Hardware can be compromised, but open source + CCP is more trustworthy than Apple.

I'm actually surprised there aren't more CCP companies doing open source. I'd gladly pay double for an open source mouse, keyboard, or other device.

[balls187]

> but I'd still want to be asked. "By default, iCloud automatically keeps your Health app data, including health records, up to date across your devices." This is different from your interpretation (opt-in versus opt-out).

You are right. This is a meaningful distinction.