[caillou]

I kind of disagree with this post. Tanks to Modern frameworks young programmers can ship clean code easily. I think frameworks help young developers become better by the day.

First learn about MVC and the first project they writer ends up being somewhat maintainable. It relies on state of the art paradigms, is modular and should be relatively safe.

With time, the framework will not provide all the needed functionality. This is when the young programers start to modify or write simple plugins. So they learn about the Framework API.

Even later, they need to modify some parts of the framework to make it possible to hook into it with a plugin. So they learn about the core Framework.

At every step, the programer is confronted with code written by more experienced programers… To me, this is the best way to learn programing.

[hackinthebochs]

>I think frameworks help young developers become better by the day.

I think you're confusing better code with better programmer. A good programmer can come up with solutions to complex problems. Good code is focused on the end result: maintainability, clarity, security, efficiency. A good programmer ships good code. But good code doesn't have to come from a good programmer for all the reasons you mentioned.

You do not learn how to be a good programmer by writing glue code.