[strangegecko]

I follow a similar pattern, but a major component for me is anhedonia / depression. I don't have anything in my life that is fulfilling or exciting or fun. I delay going to bed, both hoping to suddenly feel that spark of excitement for something, and feeling reluctant to go to bed in this unsatisified state.

[eru]

Tried stimulants?

[monkeynotes]

Stimulants to work around depression seems like a recipe for more depression. A high is usually followed by a low, not to mention fucking up your brain long-term.

I would suggest seeking professional mental health help. I'd also suggest meditation and a bit of self discovery. If it wasn't 2020 I'd also suggest travelling, break the pattern find some perspective.

Life is too short, find some help, get to the root of your problem. Life lesson for me that I am still trying to embody is happiness is a choice. It's really true. When I dig deep I realize that I actually like to wallow in unhappiness, it gives me an identity. This is obviously not healthy but realizing that is the first, incredibly difficult step. Shaking myself out of a black hole spiral is so hard. But forcing yourself to go for a walk, see some friends, basically break out of whatever negative thoughts you have an choosing to do something positive is key.

You aren't alone feeling this way. Be kind to yourself.

[strangegecko]

I'm not sure there's a root to discover that I don't already know about. I'm on the autism spectrum, I have some other health issues, I've missed out on a lot of development and experiences in life due to the ASD and mental health issues resulting from it. I struggle to keep up with work and all the other requirements life throws at you, how the world works is fundamentally depressing to me because it's in conflict with my values and I'm helpless to do anything about it.

Etc.

Lots of things that can't really be changed.

[eru]

Sorry for my flippant comment. I was actually more serious than I sounded like:

Underlying ADHD can sometimes cause depression and other weird comorbid things. If you treat the ADHD, the depression might get better. (I've seen it happen to friends.)

Yes, in the very short term, stimulants also make you happy directly. But that effect is fleeting and subject to building a very quick tolerance.

[prionassembly]

> A high is usually followed by a low

I've had both Ritalin and modafinil. They're different.

[eru]

Yes.

They both don't have much of a low at low doses. And in any case, you wouldn't be getting a high from either any more after a few days of using them, tolerances to the high build very quickly.

My original comment was a bit flippant. I was obliquely hinting at perhaps treating an underlying ADHD, because that's sometimes cause for depression and something that's relatively easy to rule out (or treat) with eg some over-the-counter nicotine patches.

[strangegecko]

I haven't done a long-term trial.

The only things that are legally available here are ritalin and modafinil (only if you have narcolepsy). I tried 5mg of ritalin 2 or 3 times, it made me work and think faster and with more focus, but it also felt jittery and I'm not sure it was all that pleasurable.

So based on that and on worries about causing more long-term damage I haven't tried to take it longer. Maybe I should try combining it with something that's supposed to be fun, but I don't know how I feel about doing this without some kind of a plan. E.g. combining with games that are challenging I would be worried about lowering my frustration tolerance.

[eru]

I was suggesting to try stimulants, because some people have an underlying ADHD that's causing depression or anxiety etc as a comorbidity. And for those people the standard stimulants used to treat ADHD also help with their other symptoms.

I have ADHD, but never any depression. (But I have friends with those combinations.)

Your reaction to Ritalin matches mine to caffeine or dexamphetamine: the dose I get jittery at is lower than the dose were I see positive effects. Luckily, Ritalin/methylphenidate works fairly well for me with rather manageable side-effects.

By the way, I bet you have other options!:

Caffeine is universally available. But has a bad side effect profile.

You can get adrafinil over-the-counter, which is a chemical precursor to modafinil. See eg https://www.gwern.net/Modafinil

Nicotine is a wonder drug, too. Nicotine patches are available over-the-counter. See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine (Please don't confuse nicotine with smoking. Smoking is still bad for you.)

I am taking methylphenidate, but for long term effects, I am actually seriously considering switching to nicotine patches:

Nicotine protects your brain against parkinson's, which runs in my family.

But in any case, from what you describe, it doesn't necessarily sound like your depression is linked to something that stimulants can help with in the first place?

[mellavora]

yes, and watch that stuff. I'll give you that for the first few times you actually were working and thinking faster (i.e. it wasn't subjective), but that goes away after a few weeks, at which point you might find yourself addicted.

They may be good for a short term boost, but they do not provide any long-term gain.