[JoeAltmaier]

Coins are essentially worthless as well. Ok, they have a 'book value' of the (usually base) metal they're made from. But that's about it.

So what has 'true value' then? Gold? It's similar to Bitcoin, in that you have to deposit it and use an exchange.

[alwillis]

It's similar to Bitcoin, in that you have to deposit it and use an exchange.

Bitcoin is peer-to-peer; you don't have to use an exchange to transact.

Lightning allows us to transact bitcoin instantaneously, person to person. There are plenty of Lightning wallets for iOS and Android.

[1]: https://bisq.network

[2]: https://hodlhodl.com

[JoeAltmaier]

As long as you're willing to transact $19000, right? Else who holds the coin in escrow? Or am I misunderstanding something.

[alwillis]

Or am I misunderstanding something. Yes.

From the Bisq FAQ: Security deposits are set to be a percentage of the trade amount—actual percent varies by BTC price volatility, but minimum is 0.006 BTC—but the percent can be adjusted by the offer maker to be as low as 15% or as high as 50%.

0.006 of a Bitcoin is $117.366

[JoeAltmaier]

So, with an exchange? Not peer to peer?

[alwillis]

So, with an exchange? Not peer to peer?

Both Bisq and Hodl Hodl are peer-to-peer. You set your own price to sell at, for example. I don't know about Hodl Hodl but Bisq runs over Tor to protect user's privacy.

[pmiller2]

I believe you can transact in amounts as low as 1 satoshi, or 1e-8 BTC, which would imply a minimum transaction amount of $0.19, assuming a value of $19k per BTC.

[pmiller2]

It's true that current circulation coins have very little value as metal scrap. The largest coin you're ever likely to encounter in circulation is the Kennedy half dollar. Since 1971, they are made of a copper core with a copper/nickel cladding layer, just like current dimes and quarters are. It's current melt value is approximately $0.09.

But, when yo speak about "true value," consider that anything you're trying to attach a dollar value to, you're measuring its value in terms of dollars. A dollar today really is little more than a bit that's set in a computer somewhere. Why do we give that any value at all?

The answer is that the USD, along with most, if not all, current world currencies, is essentially an "economy token." By that I mean the USD is literally just a way to keep score, i.e. to tell how much you're winning at the game of capitalism.

This seems like neither a good thing nor a bad thing. It just is what it is.

Interestingly, according to https://sdbullion.com/blog/how-much-silver-gold-is-there there are about 6e9 ozt gold and 5e10 ozt silver above ground right now. At today's current spot prices of $1789.55 for gold per ozt and $22.78 per ozt, that works out to about 1.2e13 USD worth, which, if we made all money either out of or backed by gold and silver in a 1:1 ratio, would literally be all the money in the world.

[mariodiana]

Gold has value on its own, apart from its function as money.