[pwagland]

Hate to say it, but this simply isn't true.

What Tesla brought to the game was insane performance for Electic cars, _and_ OTA updates for maps and software. And _just as importantly_ they actually update the software in meaningful ways.

Kia have none of these things.

Your statement is very similar to "Apple could slap their logo on any Chromebook and sell it for 2K!".

[yardie]

> What Tesla brought to the game was insane performance for Electic cars

I used to race electric cars in college. It was no secret even then that electric motors had insane performance. With a proportional throttle you had to learn early on to go easy or you would smoke your tires. Almost any electric car will smoke a ICE car, the first lap. Even the humble Nissan LEAF is under 6secs.

What Tesla really brought was capacity (we were still lead acid and NiMH at the time) and the Supercharger network. The battery tech and network are their largest asset. The cars themselves are pretty underwhelming design-wise.

[ehvatum]

> Even the humble Nissan LEAF is under 6secs.

First in line, I used to habitually accelerate from stoplights at full throttle, in my Leaf. This resulted in ICE vehicles screaming past me, after they finally detonated enough fossil fuel to catch up. I realized I was inflicting permanent psychological harm and bought an i3 from Manheim using borrowed dealer credentials and slapped a skull decal on the back window. It is known and accepted that BMWs with skulls are fast. Nobody cares.

[CrazyStat]

Why are all their competitors so far behind in efficiency (Wh/mile or your preferred units), then?

Porsche Taycan is rated somewhere in the high 400s for Wh/mile while the Model S is rated under 300 Wh/mile. The Nissan Leaf is also about 300 Wh/mile with nowhere near the performance of the Model 3 which comes in at 250 Wh/mile.

Either Tesla has a substantial technology advantage or all of their competitors are just incredibly bad.

[itsoktocry]

>Why are all their competitors so far behind in efficiency (Wh/mile or your preferred units), then?

The competition is behind, but not "so far behind".

A quick Google and you'll be able to find real world testing of these EVs, and as far as I can tell it's known that Tesla exaggerates the range of their cars, in some cases drastically.

That's not to say Tesla's tech isn't great (it is). But there are tradeoffs. The Taycan is ahead of the Model S in a few ways, too.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/best-cars/electric-cars-b...

[CrazyStat]

A single data point, but my Model X (2018 75D) has averaged 326 Wh/mile over the last 2.5 years, vs a rated efficiency of 315 Wh/mile. It was at 321 before covid lockdowns started, which shifted my driving habits toward more less-efficient car trips.

Based on that I have a hard time believing that Tesla substantially exaggerates range. I reckon my single data point is probably worth at least as much as autocar.co.uk's single data point based on a couple orders of magnitude less driving.

[goodcanadian]

Also a single data point, but my Leaf averages a bit more than 4 miles per kWh, or slightly less than 250 Wh per mile. I'm not trying to make a claim that the Leaf is better--it depends greatly on the sort of driving that you are doing, but I don't buy that the Tesla has a significant advantage either.

[zlsa]

Leaf is a compact hatchback, whereas Model X is an SUV. A better comparison would be Leaf and Model S, a sedan, which is rated at 241Wh/mi (and can reach this in actual use[0].)

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/bfhd9z/20000_m...

[CrazyStat]

Fair point. I don't know much about the Leaf; I was just going by the numbers I could find online.

[itsoktocry]

>What Tesla brought to the game was insane performance for Electic cars

Their software is cool, not sure they pioneered anything in "maps".

But as far as performance, I'm not sure that's true. Electric cars by their nature are fast. People have been putting electric setups in drag cars for a long time and getting ridiculously fast quarter mile times. There are entire racing leagues based around electric drive trains. From what I've read, the Porsche Taycan has better performance than any Tesla.

[michaelt]

I think pwagland is referring to when Tesla launched their first car.

In the 1990s there were some CARB-motivated EVs that might do 100 miles and 70mph. Not exactly performance to write home about, and they had all been discontinued (and mostly destroyed) by 2008 when Tesla started selling the Roadster.

Essentially all you could get were golf carts, mobility scooters, and the G-Wiz.

So the idea that "electric cars by their nature are fast" was very much not in evidence at that time. The Tesla Roadster, with 200+ miles of range and a 125mph top speed, was one of the first demonstrations that an electric car didn't have to mean compromising on performance.

[woahAcademia]

Apple could.

Gucci could.

Heck I've even seen GM put their logo on the Nissan Van.

Also "simply not True" is you being incorrect. OTA always existed, it's just EXTREMELY expensive to send OTA. Tesla only has a few vehicles so it's cheap compared to Ford. And they take today's Stockholders money to pay for those updates.

Source- I did automotive telematics.

[traverseda]

Why are OTA updates so expensive? The price isn't prohibitive in other fields. I don't see how adding more cars would make that process more expensive, as if anything I'd expect a lot of the cost to come from QA and with more cars that cost gets spread out better.

[salawat]

I'd hazard life critical systems requiring a greater degree of assurance that the software update actually arrived at it's destination. Maintaining connectivity to a great number of network end nodes is not a trivial endeavor, even before you get into them being able to move around.

But who am I kidding. Someone probably just pays pays for a SIM to embed in an ECU with remote wake-up to phone home and grab an update, and the cost comes from all the telco networks that need to be contracted with to forward the traffic back home.

[verall]

You also have to factor in that there's a chance of OTA failure, and the failure probably requires a mechanic visit at the manufacturer's expense.

[woahAcademia]

You need to guarantee it happens.

So you can't just use Wifi, you need to send it through the cellular provider.

Also it only gets expensive if you are doing it to millions of cars, Tesla doesn't have millions of cars. And also Tesla is using investor Money.

[numpad0]

They don’t guarantee things happen or not happen. They don’t care. That’s their secret.

[hebrox]

Since more than a year you need to connect to Wifi to get new updates.