[alfalfasprout]

It's funny that you point to that as the problem. The problem is more AWS' toxic engineering culture that has engineers fearing for their jobs in a way that guides their decision making. It's bad company culture, end of story.

[martamorena9182]

AWS is big. Amazon is even bigger. Disgruntled people are the ones who often cry the loudest. Just because there may be teams who act like this, doesn't mean that is the case in general.

You don't hear a lot of people praising AWS, the same way you don't hear a lot of people saying how great it is to have an iPhone. If I am happy, I have little incentive to post about it, since that should be the default state.

But the matter of fact is simple. If you end up in a team like this, switch and raise complaints afterwards. Nothing stops you from it. There is no "toxic engineering culture" at AWS. The problem is that AWS makes you into an owner and that includes owning your career. That means if you feel something is wrong, YOU are expected to act. No one will do it for you. And there are plenty of mechanism for you to act.

This is the greatest benefit of working at Amazon but its also the downfall of people who are not able to own things.

[Aeolun]

> The problem is that AWS makes you into an owner and that includes owning your career.

Firing me for correctly telling customers that their services are down is not my idea of making me an owner.

[Frost1x]

You're the owner of aspects like responsibility and risk but not the owner of aspects related to financial growth (I mean, your stock options are, but that's about it).

[martamorena9182]

Doing what you think is right, is not necessarily the right thing to do. This is why there is also "Disagree and Commit". There are many facets to this and I am 100% sure that you did not get fired for >correctly< telling customers... You could potentially get fired for incorrectly telling them though, if the issue was severe enough.

[Ensorceled]

That sounds toxic.

[cbkeller]

>AWS makes you into an owner and that includes owning your career.

This sort of corporate jargon does not exactly instill confidence. I think I'm more concerned about Amazon's engineering culture now than I was before.

[an_opabinia]

I empathize with the poster. Imagine being paid less than someone who works half as hard at another company, but more than your coworkers, to say cringe stuff like that.

[jugg1es]

"You don't hear a lot of people praising AWS"

You definitely hear a lot of people praising AWS.

[isit2021yet]

This is 100% wrong, and only seeks to detail the conversation. A toxic way to think, and sets off a lot of red flags for me, essentially ruining their creditability.

  Disgruntled people are the ones who often cry the loudest. Just because there may be teams who act like this, doesn't mean that is the case in general.

Is right up there with "we don't know it wasn't aliens"

[captionVanguard]

There are plenty of ways a work culture can make you utterly miserable yet you can't do anything about it. Perhaps you aren't confident enough, or things haven't yet reached the 'tipping point', or other options just aren't available to you for political reasons, lack of openings on other teams, lack of skills...

I think it's bigger than just "it's your problem, you own it". There are factors beyond your control.

[etaioinshrdlu]

As a customer I don't really care whether AWS has a toxic internal culture. I care about whether they have operational excellence and a high quality product. This information is showing cracks in operational excellence.