[throwawaygh]

> For example, in Philadelphia they have closed the permitting office repeatedly for COVID, bystepping the law which requires them to issue a permit in 45 days, by simply not accepting applications.

This was a HUGE deal in the PA gun community, and I simply cannot understand why.

1. PA extended the expiration date on existing permits that expired after February until Dec 31. It was only new permits requests where the delay actually effected anyone.

2. The delays weren't specific to guns. Government offices closed and then opened at reduced capacity. This also happened for DLs.

3. The remedy provided by the state was also not specific to guns. Again, e.g., expiring driver's licenses were extended.

4. The state's choice not to prioritize streamlining this paperwork was reasonable. It had huge budget shortfalls and more important things to worry about (acquiring/distributing PPE, acquiring/distributing respirators, high unemployment, evictions, running elections, finding overflow space for hospitals, moving schools to remote, figuring out how to safely open up service businesses/schools, and the list goes on...)

5. To the extent that streamlining paper work should have been a larger priority, given the severe stress on logistics networks, I'd imagine CDLs would be the place to spend those limited resources rather than CCW applications.

So, an unavoidable delay happened in LOTS of government processes -- only one of which was CCW issuance -- and the government provided uniform remediation to help partially mitigate the impact of delays in all of those processes.

No one was coming for anyone's guns.

TBH the foaming-at-the-mouth response to unavoidable reasonable delays in processing concealed carry permits during a public health emergency is the sort of thing that makes me (a gun owner) feel completely antagonistic toward the PA 2A advocacy community.

[calvinmorrison]

> I simply cannot understand why anyone gives a damn about this.

Because I currently cannot get a LCTF from the city. That's why I give a damn. It is currently effecting me. I had no need for that before corona virus, I do need one now.

Bucks county is issuing it in 15 minutes. Philly does a whole interview process which goes beyond a basic NICS check and they have chosen to be poorly staffed for a very long time.

Again, they set up a complicated process for applications, then shut it down, all of which is of their own (the cities) volition.

It's not reasonable delays. There are people who don't have their appointment until December, 2021. more than a year out.

Anyway, it's all really arguing something that should be moot - A persons right should not depend on the government service choosing to open its office.

[throwawaygh]

> Because I currently cannot get a LCTF from the city... I had no need for that before corona virus, I do need one now.

I'm not questioning that you really do need a LTCF, but with COVID and the protests and the election suddenly everyone "needs" a gun.

So there's reduced capacity + HUGE surge in demand + severe budget shortfalls. It's not a conspiracy. It's just queuing theory.

> Bucks county is issuing it in 15 minutes. Philly does a whole interview process which goes beyond a basic NICS check and they have chosen to be poorly staffed for a very long time.

Allegheny is far less onerous than Philly but also has long wait times.

Also, these super long wait times are a relatively recent development. I expect Sheriff's offices will do what they can to address the problem in the new FY.

> Anyway, it's all really arguing something that should be moot - A persons right should not depend on the government service choosing to open its office.

Again, priorities. Tell that to the people waiting in jail for far longer than constitutionally permissible for hearings because of delays in the courts. Should we reallocate cash from judicial processes to CCW processes and have those folks wait in jail an extra few months so that folks who got all jittery a few months before the election can forget to show up to their CCW appointments?

[calvinmorrison]

It's interesting, because with a financial incentive, stores have no problem running NICS checks in a few short minutes.

I am uninterested in the government itself creating onerous requirements to execute basic rights and then complaining when they can't manage it in a reasonable time.

And of course, the courts have ruled there is a reasonable amount of time, that's 45 days. It's been litigated.

[throwawaygh]

> with a financial incentive

I guess it doesn't need saying, but government offices have no such incentive. In fact, we don't want government offices to have such an incentive, and we even make it illegal to construct such an incentive in certain ways. See: the article.

> the courts have ruled there is a reasonable amount of time, that's 45 days. It's been litigated.

Courts don't control purse strings, and the remedy you're asking for here is pretty extreme given the circumstances.

[chipsa]

A right delayed is a right denied. And it's not just queues, apparently. It's the office is closed. The line isn't moving.

[throwawaygh]

The office was closed back in March when pretty much everything was closed. AFAIK it's been open for months, but there's an enormous backlog because the backlog + reduced capacity (need to do everything by appointment for social distancing and keep appointment slots large enough to ensure physical queues don't form) + increased demand.

People are queuing for hours to get COVID tests, hospitals are reaching capacity, and people are rotting in prison because they can't get an appointment in front of a judge. In normal times I would be more sympathetic. There are greater injustices than waiting a few months for your LTCF, and more important forms of justice (habeas corpus) being delayed.

[tshaddox]

I suspect the other commenter’s point is that they thing there should not be any procedural requirements whatsoever for concealed carry.

[agensaequivocum]

This is one reason why there should be no permitting, just unrestricted carry.

[rkt88edmo]

I'll throw out a few things , even though I don't know much about PA. In some places if your permit expires you are now a criminal and breaking the law, which may put your ability to own any firerms at risk, so staying in compliance is a huge deal. Also, lapses in permits may submit you to a whole new round of scrutiny when you reapply. Often, the fees we pay for these permits are meant to fund the work to issue them. It isn't uncommon for those fees to get diverted elsewhere, so now we paid for services we aren't receiving. These things have happened to firearms owners so we are hypersensitized to these issues.

[15155]

"Justice too long delayed is justice denied."