[stu2b50]

Don't consider Roblox a traditional game. It's basically Gmod for kids and with official corporate support and a official way for developers to wring money out of its consumers with micro transactions.

More platform than game. It's really easy for developers to develop a game, easily implement real money transactions, and have an audience.

[shiftpgdn]

My 8 year old and 5 year old girls spend literally their entire allowance on Robux. They would spend literally the entire day playing if I allowed it. The developer toolset is crazy strong too, I bet they're not even 10% of the way with their market penetration.

[bladegash]

Same here, with daughters 4 and 7! They beg me for Robux on a frequent basis and 100% of their weekly allowance goes towards it.

I have no doubt Roblux will continue to make mountains of money. The amount of people playing it is mind blowing and I’m sure there are additional ways to monetize their ecosystem.

As a side note - it’s cool to see them play so well together and I even play with them too to engage with them on something they enjoy. On the other hand, I sometimes get concerned with how much they play and how addictive the micro transactions are for kids their age. Then again, I spent most of my days growing up playing games like EverQuest, WoW, learning to program, etc. , so it’s hard for me to judge.

[rorykoehler]

It should be illegal to target kids with micro-transaction games.

[mlyle]

Remember arcade machines and scrounging up quarters?

If it's like that, IMO it's OK. If it's pseudo-gambling or dark-patterned squeezing all your money out, that's not OK. Roblox is more like the former, usually.

[Nullabillity]

Arcade machines had plenty of dark patterns.

Think of it like indoor smoking or child beating. It's not OK just because some people grew up with it.

[mlyle]

Oh, I remember 194x and Gauntlet being a bit abusive and pay-to-win. ;)

I disagree with you. I don't think that pay-by-usage is inherently bad, for adults or kids.

I also feel like... it's probably best if one doesn't encounter these kinds of things as an adult for the first time. What's better to learn moderation with?

My kids (11, 9, 6) have, so far, largely shrugged off microtransaction things and think they're kinda dumb... But they've spent maybe 10% of their discretionary money since birth on Pokemon cards, which scratches many of the same itches. I don't feel like A) it's bad for them, or B) that they're going to look back at the time and money spent and regret it. But they have regretted spending a little bit on Pokemon cards that they'd later rather have spent on something else, and that's a great lesson.

[skocznymroczny]

My nephews are spending their whole day browsing dodgy ad-ridden bait websites promising "free robux".

[jfoster]

Why? As in, what would be the principle behind that?

How about... Toys? Should toys for kids be illegal? Should lollies for kids be legal?

[jholman]

I mean, I'm not necessarily taking a side on GP's claim, but don't be disingenuous.

Should firearms for kids be illegal? Should driving for kids be illegal? Should gambling for kids be illegal? Should starring in porn for kids be illegal? Should data-mining the behaviour of children be illegal? Should paying children to work in mines be illegal?

Obviously the principle would be something along the lines of "games with microtransactions are potentially hazardous to the buyer in a way, or to a degree, such that while we should allow adults to make their own choices, we should protect children from the consequences of being partially-formed minds, and so we should avoid targeting children with that business model". Same as gambling, or selling your PII to get free services, or starring in porn. I'm not saying it's a slam-dunk argument, I'm saying the structure of the argument is obvious and straightforward. And I expect every adult to be at least partially sympathetic to it, even the ones who end the paragraph with "but, on the balance, freedom is more important, so it should not be illegal".

Well. I admit. I mostly agree with GP's claim. But not with high confidence.

[jsgo]

The way micro transactions work in those games (effectively for skins, special privileges in games, etc.), I think the toy comparison isn’t terribly far off the mark. Guns, starring in porn, working in mines, etc. is extreme in comparison.

Whether it be tycoon games, social adventure games like About Me, Royal High, etc., it’s basically the new form of entertainment for kids. About the time my daughter became generally disinterested in toys was about the time she started liking Roblox.

[jfoster]

Aren't the micro-transactions a bit beside the point? Those seem more harmful to parents' wallets. Surely it's the addictive nature of the games that is more harmful to kids?

If the principle is that anything hazardous for kids should be banned, it makes sense, at least in theory. In practice I think it might change a lot of what is currently considered "part of childhood", though.

[rorykoehler]

Because it's predatory. I'm not sure if it's intended or not but your question seems to be in really bad faith.

[yagya]

My 9 year old brother plays Roblox and discusses the trade values of pets in the games Bubblegum Simulator and Adopt Me on Fandom all the time, but doesn't spend actual money on any microtransactions in the game. Still, I'm surprised to see that there are people that will charge and pay huge amounts of money for rare digital pets in the game.

[uoaei]

I see this sentiment often from parents. It baffles me.

If you made decisions in your youth that you think were mistakes, you should be passing on the lessons of those mistakes. Not stepping back in non-judgment because "who am I to say". You are their parent!

[bladegash]

Yeah, sorry for the confusion - that sentence likely could have been more complete. As others mentioned, I feel as though I turned out fine and I regret next to none of that time spent.

[nhumrich]

I think it's less about "mistakes I made as a kid", and moreso, "I turned out great, so maybe they aren't mistakes"

[aaronblohowiak]

Or lessons well learned

[m0zg]

> you should be passing on the lessons

One thing parents discover is that if it's between dopamine and "lessons", dopamine wins 100% of the time. My 16 year old right now is playing games instead of doing his homework. He's going to have 2 "F"s this semester, just like the last, and one before that, and one before that. Doesn't give a shit - never experienced any hardship (yet).

[meheleventyone]

There's obviously a lot not said here but are you waiting for your kid to be "scared straight" or something?

[m0zg]

Oh no, I'm not "waiting". I'm trying to convince him that he's making bad choices, that he's making his own life dramatically harder in the long run, and so on, trying to get him to actually think what he wants to be when he grows up and create a plan of some sort for how to get there, maybe. He even nods in agreement. The moment I turn around he fires up a game or YouTube and he's right back to his dopamine cycle. So I'm afraid the school of hard knocks it'll have to be.

There's this misconception among non-parents (or even parents of well behaved kids) that kids are robots and they will automatically listen to whatever "lessons" you give them. That may or may not happen, depending on the kid, and you really have little to no control over whether it does happen.

And gaming, social media, etc, companies aren't making any of this any easier, unfortunately. This is something we'll have to pay a heavy price for in 10 years or so, that much is pretty certain.

[jvanderbot]

I think op was missing the implied " and I turned out ok "

[pyuser583]

I agree with you.

My daughter spent 100% of her allowance on Robux. Now she doesn’t have an allowance.

[acomjean]

My nieces the same.. very popular with the young ones. They even have an “among us” like game on there

[worldsayshi]

Feels like every moddable game platform with decent popularity has an among us clone nowadays.

[shitloadofbooks]

Among Us is already a clone of Mafia/Werewolf/The Resistance.

[lkxijlewlf]

It is interesting to me that this is a commercial entity. It looks to me more like it should have been an open source platform. It kinda has that vibe to it.

[mrspeaker]

It's a brilliant concept too - making games for it is really really run, because all the multiplayer stuff is built right in by default.

Making reliable multiplayer games is tough: I'd love to see a serious API service that does the same thing for "real" game engine/libraries!

[stu2b50]

Yes, multiplayer is a good point. Roblox is an easy way to make games that are

1) Multiplayer (skipping all netcode, account systems, and so forth)

2) Have a secured, safe, and trusted way to make transactions

If you were to try and make a multiplayer, microtransaction based game in Unity, that is a large amount of work, especially for a younger developer, and it's _critical_. Messing up payment code has huge consequences.

[sidlls]

Check out https://www.manticoregames.com/. I wouldn’t say it’s “prime time” as a competitor but it’s built on Epic’s tech.

[ec109685]

How do they get away with being essentially a platform itself for multiple games and not run afoul of the same restrictions that prevent cloud gaming platforms being sold in the App Store?

[modeless]

That's a very good question. Also it seems that Roblox games are scripted in Lua. How do they get away with running downloaded user scripts inside their app?

The App Store review guidelines prohibit this very clearly:

> Apps should be self-contained in their bundles, and may not [...] download, install, or execute code which introduces or changes features or functionality of the app [...]

There is only one narrow exception which clearly does not apply to Roblox for several reasons; for example it's only for HTML5 content.

Tim Cook just testified to Congress that all developers are treated equally, but this seems like a clear case where an app that is "too big to fail" gets special treatment.

[_kxbd]

because most companies do not recognize roblox as a platform, they recognize it as a game. nobody realizes that the development of games on it is on a similar level to web development, it's like explaining social media to congressmen.

it's not them getting special treatment purposefully. it's been on the iOS app store since 2012.

apple's policy here is a bad one. if it were fully remove, true web browser diversity could come to iOS, and roblox could finally do JIT compilation of Lua, among so many other possibilities.

[modeless]

> it's not them getting special treatment purposefully. it's been on the iOS app store since 2012.

So they're grandfathered in? I wonder how much of their valuation can be attributed to the fact that it's essentially impossible for anyone to make a competitor available on iOS?

[titanomachy]

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted. This seems like a reasonable question, and yeah Apple definitely breaks their App Store rules when needed if it will make them more money.

[ec109685]

And I for one think it is very good that Apple does not require them to break Roblox up into multiple games. It is nice having one game that I generally know what its content is like and mechanics are versus the crap that my kids want to download from the App Store.

[jzl]

Because the app store rules are arbitrarily enforced at Apple's whim?

[sergiotapia]

There's this VR game called Recroom.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/471710/Rec_Room/

It's Roblox for the next generation, and extremely fun even to me when I tried it out as an adult. I hope Roblox expands into VR or recroom will eat their lunch. VR is the future and people spend HOURS in there playing all sorts of official games and community made games.

[stu2b50]

Anything with VR has such an insane barrier of entry that I don't see it eating into anyone's lunch anytime soon.

Roblox has the userbase it does because it's on every platform and runs on potatoes.

How many kids (using a large range from ages 1-18) have VR setups in their homes?

[sushshshsh]

VR probably has a higher per capita usage among kids than 30 year olds to be fair. My first graphics card was bequeathed to me at the tender age of 11 back when GPUs were a niche thing

[canofbars]

>How many kids (using a large range from ages 1-18) have VR setups in their homes?

Can't answer this directly but recently the multiplayer VR games have had more 10-16 year olds than any other group

[bseidensticker]

You can play recroom with an Oculus Quest, PSVR, or regular screen if you want. The Quest 2 base model costs $300 and is entirely standalone, no PC required.

I have a Valve Index ($1,000 + gaming PC + installing 2 lighthouses on my walls), and while my experience is definitely better (other than the cord), the Quest provides a comparable experience for beat saber, rec room, pistol whip, which comprise 90% of what I use my Index for anyway.

[csunbird]

The Quest 2 also requires a facebook account that they ban randomly and make you lose all your purchases.

[bseidensticker]

Yeah, which is why I didn't get one. Doesn't change the fact that you can get an all-inclusive first-class VR experience for $300.

[worldsayshi]

It's probably going to change soon. You can buy a Quest 2 for the same price as a Nintendo switch now. It doesn't need an accompanying gaming pc.

[ckosidows]

Yep. The time is upon us. My friends who aren't even big into games are getting quests because of super hot and beat saber. And Christmas is coming around soon.

If VR fails at this point I would be surprised. If Facebook got some competition it would be good for long term VR development. But there's already a good amount of VR hype and great games and it won't be going away anytime soon.

[mlindner]

Kids will be getting their dad's (or mom's) hand me down VR system within a few years when those parents eventually choose to upgrade.

[Impossible]

Quest 2 is $299, that's a barrier but not insane. Also, Rec Room is not VR only, there are clients for iOS, PC and PS4 that run in a mode with no VR (obviously VR isn't even an option for iOS). That's not as much platform coverage as Roblox, but it's not bad. Definitely worth checking out even if you don't have VR.

[hokumguru]

Last I checked Roblox supports steamvr.

[sidlls]

The only thing VR is going to eat in the next 5-10 years is (more) dirt. It’s still niche and I have yet to see any application to make it not niche. Including that.

[echelon]

VR is going to be as big as smart phones. It'll kill Hollywood, create new forms of entertainment, and entirely new economies will arise along the (Twitch, Patreon, OnlyFans)-axes.

Why do you think Zuckerberg cares so much? It might be the smartest bet he's made since Instagram.

Just watch.

[mekkkkkk]

It has the potential, but it is still so hampered by the physical constraints. You look like an idiot, you're not very comfortable, performance is meh, battery life is horrible and you need ample space to play in.

Even if all of this was fixed tomorrow, many people have been burnt by previous generations, and don't have much hype left for VR. I've mothballed my Go, my friends sold their Rifts. Fun as a gimmick but as a main gaming/media platform unthinkable.

While I agree that it's probably inevitable that it will become a staple device like a smartphone is today, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[chorsestudios]

I get that Roblox is a platform and not just another game on the App Store. It appears to be popular and addicting to children, but most children don't have money. Is all of their revenue coming strictly from children's allowances or is this something that has potential to appeal to older people?

[emcrazyone]

ha, you don't sound like you have kids. My kids love Roblox... You're birthday is coming up, what do you want? Roblox gift card. Grandma wants to get you a birthday, xmas, ____ gift, what do you want? Get me a roblox gift card or robucks as they are called. My kids now design shrits and sell them online and take the money and spend it on roblocks. Roblocks is also a way for kids to connect online. For example, mine talk to their cousins that live in another state and their friends from a neighborhood we moved away from.

[sushshshsh]

A nice wholesome internet for kids story :)

Back in my day we were using AIM in the 5th grade and joining friends of friends of friends of friends chatrooms, playing Gmod, or Habbo Hotek :)