[shinigami]

> The layperson doesn't have to understand the intricacies of email protocols, it's enough that they consider email to be non-repudiable.

They consider it non-repudiable not because of DKIM, it's just a common misconception. People believed that before DKIM. They will still believe it if Google discloses its DKIM keys.

They totally should not believe it, though.

> So if I can't give the exact number of times that DKIM has helped in dispute resolution, then my argument "has zero basis in reality"?

Of course that's not what I meant, I don't care about exact numbers. Just give me some evidence that DKIM is relevant to solve disputes anywhere else other than in the minds of HN commenters. Otherwise your claim that the world is better off now with non-repudiable email has no basis in reality.

> they are choosing non-repudiation over privacy

They totally are not. They have no idea what are the properties of email. As an example, a non-tech friend of mine was once surprised that email does not provide any confidentiality.

[baobabKoodaa]

We're discussing a campaign whose goal is to increase the deniability of email. When you say things like "they will still believe [email is non-repudiable] if Google discloses its DKIM keys", you're essentially saying that this campaign will not be successful in its ultimate goal - that even if the campaign manages to get Google to periodically rotate and publish their DKIM keys, it will not achieve the desired effect of increasing the deniability of email. So, you're saying that this campaign is a fool's errand?

I don't have a strong opinion on the chances of success that this campaign has. What I am saying is that if the campaign was successful in increasing the repudiability of email, that would make it easier for people to repudiate emails that they've sent, and that would be a bad thing in the context of resolving disputes. Do you agree?