[Damorian]

Except those links are exactly my point. "Human" is a species of intelligent animals. "Person", is an entity typically associated with traits humans have. They are different things and the distinction is important. The purpose of your "dehumanizing" language is to detract from the "personhood" being debated.

[Fumtumi]

Nope; I don't need to discuss the 'personhood'.

I'm clearly fine with abortion before the 3th month.

And no if you wanna have it clarified: I think a human being is more than just a small or big blob of cells

My opinion did not change after we lost our 'fetus' in the 3th month. And no seeing a small body lying there was not a nice experience.

[Damorian]

Given the grammar mistakes, I'm assuming English is not your first language, and you aren't properly understanding what I'm saying. It's fine if you don't want to engage, but if you are going to engage, please do so in good faith, seeking to understand the other person as completely as possible, particularly if you are working against a language barrier. I had assumed you were being disingenuous/willfully ignorant before, but I doubt that now, my apologies for making that assumption.

[Fumtumi]

You still can try to clarify what you are trying to say instead of being dismissive.

Let me try to reword it:

Yes it is a human fetus; Its not a human being.

[Damorian]

There is a common theme among people who argue over abortion; they choose particular words that are either unscientific or misleading, in a disingenuous way, to promote their side as being more rational. My initial assumption is that you were doing this, and you may still be, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I feel it is very important that when we discuss abortion, we do so in a way that is scientific, rational, and consistent.

Your choice of words is particularly egregious, in my opinion. Killing is not the same as homicide. Human is not the same as person. A fetus is not a clump of cells, or a baby.

A "human being" is just a human (a common usage scientific term), and human is just a species of animal. So yes, a "human fetus" is a "human being". "Person" is a legal/philosophical term, not necessarily a scientific one. "Killing" simply refers to ending the life of a living thing. "Homicide" (the mention of which you removed?) is a legal term for killing a person. To drive this point home further, we have concepts for non-human persons, and non-person humans. They aren't interchangeable in all contexts.

The scientific reality and proper usage of the English language is abortion is killing humans (human fetuses). This is not up for debate. The debate is whether these humans are "persons", which entitles them to rights, or if they are not, if they deserve rights in some other capacity (e.g. my dog isn't a person but has rights).

Again, when people say "it's not killing" or "it's not a human", or tangentially, "it's a clump of cells" or "it's a baby" they are factually wrong and are deliberately misusing those words in an attempt to strengthen their argument, when in reality it makes them look either dishonest or ignorant.

To me, your posts are either dishonest, or ignorant. That was my entire point.

[Supermancho]

> The scientific reality and proper usage of the English language is abortion is killing humans (human fetuses). This is not up for debate.

Killing <animal> and killing <animal> fetus is not a an equivalence in animal medicine.

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/reproductive-system/abortion-...

I do not subscribe to your belief that there is no debate, with that assertion.

[Damorian]

To kill simply means to put a living thing to death. A fetus (human or otherwise) is a living thing. I don't know what the purpose of your link was, or how it has anything to do with the misuse of words above. Unless you think I'm implying that all forms of killing are the same, which obviously I'm not. That being said "killing <animal> fetus" is merely a subset of "killing <animal>" by basic logic. Were you implying otherwise by citing that link?

[lostmsu]

You insistence on using scientific terms is misplaced in this case, as definitions are imprecise. This is not axiomatic geometry we are talking about.

For example, by some definition of species, many people with Down Syndrome do not belong to homo sapiens or any species really, due to inability to reproduce.

The closest definition you seek is DNA matching arguably is not favorable either because the syndrome causes severe DNA structure difference.

[Damorian]

Forgive me for thinking "kill" and "human" are grade school vocab words with clear definitions. I really don't feel like I'm being too pedantic here (maybe a little, but for good reason). I think the biased and incorrect way people speak when discussing abortion is ridiculous and isn't conducive to healthy conversation. If there were pro-lifers in this thread talking about a genocide two orders of magnitude bigger than the holocaust I'd be talking them down too.

[orwin]

A human foetus w/o personality or any human trait, or a person that have a life to live and don't want to forcibly stay attached to that violonist for 9 months, i think i'm pretty okay with killing the foetus and everyone should be too.