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by avianlyric 2044 days ago
How exactly would you do this?

> in an encrypted manner that has guarantees in place that only valid criminal investigations can decrypt

What constitutes a valid criminal investigation, who decides? Do you, does a prosecutor, a judge, the police?

Is it a valid to decrypt your data just see if you were at a specific location at a specific time? What about so the police can check a theory? How about to see if you joined an unsanctioned protest, smoked a joint, speed while driving, downloaded a movie?

Speeding and copyright theft are both criminal, are you saying that your happy to make it trivial to investigate you for these crimes an prosecute you for them?

It used to be criminal to engage in homosexual behaviour, and in some parts of the world. Once upon a time that would be a valid criminal investigation in the US. For a short while it was looking like abortions might become criminal in the not too distant future.

Privacy is a fundamental tool for allowing society to progress and change, and for avoiding totalitarianism.

1 comments

>"What constitutes a valid criminal investigation, who decides? Do you, does a prosecutor, a judge, the police?"

Some sort of formal process with reasonable oversight the necessity of multiple points of compromise and/or collusion in order for the data to be abused for non-governmental use. Bottom line, I can't say I've "solved" the problem and have the perfect answer to your question. But I'm sure we, collectively as a society filled with smart people that want to move us forward, could put down some (fundamental?) tools/rules/processes that would negate the potential for abuse up until a certain point. Maybe we can't do 100%, but we could do 95 or 98%?

>"Is it a valid to decrypt your data just see if you were at a specific location at a specific time? What about so the police can check a theory? How about to see if you joined an unsanctioned protest, smoked a joint, speed while driving, downloaded a movie?"

Yes, very much so Yes! Especially the location based stuff as it's perfect for investigations without revealing details. "List all people that were within 50m of this crime location during this timespan." <-- that is so unbelievably powerful as a crime-solving tool, that I am baffled that we're avoiding it out of privacy concerns. As for the speeding example: That's probably another example of us already giving the data (car's black-box) to government (and private insurance companies) in order to facilitate an investigation.

But to your point about drug-use, speeding and copyright infringement. If we don't want something prosecuted then we shouldn't have it as a crime. But as it stands now, a bunch of what you mentioned is a crime. That represents an implicit agreement by all of us in society that says we deem those things punishable. We can't hide behind lack of capability to police said crimes, but still label them as such. That is ripe for offical-power abuse. For all we know, if we lived in a society where we had such strict enforcement of laws as I suggest, we'd potentially have greater churn and change in our laws to match the opinions of society as it changed and evolved.

> "Privacy is a fundamental tool for allowing society to progress and change, and for avoiding totalitarianism."

I disagree. I'm not seeing it. There is just way too much going wrong today in 1-st world countries whilst we have really good privacy for it to be the case. We're downright descending into totalitarianism and thought/opinion control territory, all whilst our "privacy" is mostly maintained and respected. Are you saying we need more of it? What would that look like to you?

Here is an example of how location data can be abused, accidentally or otherwise [0]. If you go down this road, then smart criminals will just take steps to avoid carry location tracking devices. What do you do then? Force everyone to carry and maintain a GPS tracker? Arrest them if they fail to charge it properly, because they could use that window to commit a crime without being tracked?

> We can't hide behind lack of capability to police said crimes, but still label them as such.

Most laws are written with the implicit assumption it’s not possible to perfectly enforce them. That provides some natural wriggle room to interpret the laws, avoids the need to write a long list of when it’s ok to speed for example.

Perfect enforcement breaks all of that. A knowledgable police officer could almost certainly stop you on any day the week and find you guilt of some obscure and ancient crime that’s no longer relevant.

> For all we know, if we lived in a society where we had such strict enforcement of laws as I suggest, we'd potentially have greater churn and change in our laws to match the opinions of society as it changed and evolved.

How do you imagine society would evolve its opinions and change them in a world of perfect enforcement? How the gay community show the world there nothing wrong with their way of life, if they simply couldn’t live it?

How would society change its views on smoking weed, if it was impossible to smoke it?

It’s impossible for a society to change its view on existing laws, if it’s completely unable to experiment with ignoring, or re-interpreting them.

It would be like expecting a child to ask for food they had never eaten, and never seen anyone else eat. How could they possibly know it existed, much less if it was good or bad for them?

> I disagree. I'm not seeing it. There is just way too much going wrong today in 1-st world countries whilst we have really good privacy for it to be the case. We're downright descending into totalitarianism and thought/opinion control territory, all whilst our "privacy" is mostly maintained and respected

Hahahaha, seriously. You complain of thought control, but advocate for world where the government can watch your every move, and perfectly enforce every law. Have you read 1984? I see little difference between world in that book, and the one your advocating for.

> Are you saying we need more of it? What would that look like to you?

Yes I am. How can you control someone’s though and opinions if you don’t know what they are? How can a totalitarian government rule with an iron fist if they don’t know where their citizens are, or what they’re doing?

Totalitarian governments come into existence because people want control and order, and they’re great if you fit into that governments view of what control and order look like. If you don’t, we’ll there are plenty of genocides that can be studied.

[0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...