[pqoek]

Part of changing and improve things is to actually move there to dilute the bigotry But I can understand that one wouldn't want to be the one that has to suffer for the good cause, because it takes generations for things to improve.

The great thing about religion is that it attracts fanatics who are willing to do this work. I wish there was a movement to make the world a better place with missionaries going abroad and to remote places to make people more open minded and less individualistic.

[austincheney]

> Part of changing and improve things is to actually move there to dilute the bigotry

Yes, bigotry is a nasty stain. Otherwise this thought sounds so tone deaf.

The common perception outside California is that Californians royally fucked it up and are flooding out like water from a ruptured damn, except they are bringing their political baggage with them to damage their new home just like the thing they can’t escape from fast enough.

[Retric]

It’s really odd to me that California is perceived to be such a problem while the area is so economically productive. It’s a very odd type of cognitive dissonance where something is both a model to be copied and a mess at the same time by the same people.

People try and recreate Silicon Valley while arguing non competes must be enforced. As if the ideas must inherently be unrelated.

[leetcrew]

> It’s really odd to me that California is perceived to be such a problem while the area is so economically productive. It’s a very odd type of cognitive dissonance where something is both a model to be copied and a mess at the same time by the same people.

it's only odd if you think economic productivity is the sole determination of what makes a desirable place to live. regarding SF in particular, it's phenomenal what has been accomplished there, don't get me wrong. but this has to be weighed against the fact that a "starter home" costs $1mm, the rate of petty crime rivals that of the most dangerous cities in america, etc. it's not cognitive dissonance to acknowledge that, while great things have been accomplished, a lot of stupid mistakes have also been made.

and by the way, I don't think the ban on non-competes is usually what people are thinking of when they describe california as a mess.

[dragonwriter]

> I don't think the ban on non-competes is usually what people are thinking of when they describe california as a mess.

Antibusiness/antiemployer government intervention is the most commonly explicitly-cited thing, and pretty much every State law, rule, and regulation that favors employees or restricts employers is included in that basket.

[burnthrow]

> the rate of petty crime rivals that of the most dangerous cities in america

Correction: SF has nation-leading levels of property crime, a leaderboard dominated by west coast cities. The US cities with highest violent crime rates have comparably low property crime. Which makes sense: Property crime is riskier in those places.

[dragonwriter]

Violent crime is often also property crime in fact, but often not counted as such. So the level of violent crime masks some of the property crime.

[burnthrow]

A negligible amount. Property crime rate far exceeds violent crime rate in every US city.

[Retric]

That rate of property crime is a direct result of prosperity. In poor areas there is less stuff worth stealing and people spend more effort protecting it.

The average house in Riverdale Chicago is worth less than the average car in Silicon Vally. People there make less money from armed robbery than someone can shoplift from a Silicon Valley Apple store. So shockingly with different risk/reward payoffs you get more property crime instead of armed robbery.

[Thorrez]

According to https://www.neighborhoodscout.com

SF property crime: 57.01/1000

SF median home: $1,195,367

SF per-capita income: $64k

NYC property crime: 18.64/1000

NYC median home: $1,126,049

NYC per-capita income: $73k

Palo Alto property crime: 22.88/1000

Palo Alto median home: $2,363,833

Palo Alto per-capita income: $89k

Chicago property crime: 32.48/1000

Chicago median home: $272,043

Chicago per-capita income: $34k

So SF has worse property crime even though it is on-par or poorer than NYC and Palo Alto.

[Retric]

That site is wildly inaccurate it lists 1.2% of homes in San Francisco as under 58k. https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ca/san-francisco/real-esta...

But, if you’re confusing the point, clearly median income isn’t the only factor. Palo Alto is 2,712.65/sq mi where San Francisco is 18,790.74/sq mi. It’s over the hump where you don’t get poor people begging etc. Similarly, manhattan effectively segregates the rich an poor in a way that San Francisco doesn’t, but wealth very much is a factor when comparing San Francisco to similar areas.

[pqoek]

I think you mean disparity

[austincheney]

It isn’t that CA is a problem. The issue here is ethnocentricity and a complete absence of empathy.

The only question people are left asking is if a CA transplant believes their different way of doing things is so much better then why did they leave and why don’t they go back.

[lotsofpulp]

I also agree it seems like some weird cognitive dissonance to look down on California’s labor and environmental laws, as if many people like to pretend they’re in the owner class. Sure, some are crazy, but overall it’s a trend in the right direction to benefit the vast majority of worker bees, at least the ones who aren’t pretending they’re going to be millionaires.

[odessacubbage]

it's odd to me that larry flynt is perceived to be such a problem when his businesses are so economically productive.

[kylequest]

Aside from not allowing non-competes what is there to copy?

[lotsofpulp]

Overtime after 8 hours, allowing sitting if you don’t need to stand, mandatory 30 min breaks after 5 hours, same min wage for all workers regardless of tipping, health insurance mandate, Medi-Cal, to name a few.

I have a relative with an advanced degree in a state without labor laws who has to work 12 and 13 hour shifts with zero breaks standing up.

[MrMorden]

The best anti-SLAPP law in the country, no state ban on municipal broadband, no blue laws, allows people who get a JD by remote learning to take the bar exam.

[odessacubbage]

it's not even just political baggage per say, city people and second home owners are coming from a different culture and they rarely if ever try to understand ours before demanding we change it to accommodate them. they want a starbucks, they want a whole foods and a shopping mall, they drive like assholes on a good day and are straight up dangerous once the roads start to get icy. given the choice they'd turn this place into another smoggy strip mall where the foxes don't come out and you can't see the stars anymore; they wouldn't even recognize what they took from us. to them central park is nature and not a big fucking lawn surrounded by noise and dead concrete. i see exactly what all the concentrated wealth and genius managed to do to california and it scares the shit out of me. keep your money, keep your 'culture' and opportunities just please go somewhere else.

[brudgers]

What religion is primarily focused on ending bigotry? Genuinely curious.