[saagarjha]

The problem with the argument given is that it basically gives up to Apple because it thinks that the situation that Apple provides is the best default experience for the majority of users. It probably is, but the problem is that 1. Apple doesn’t really explain any of this stuff anywhere so a technical user may read about it and make an informed decision nor 2. do they really provide a way to alter the process to use someone who isn’t Apple: just because they are a good default shouldn’t mean they should be the only provider that your computer will ever trust. And I think 3. is anger that a system Apple put in place failed in an entirely foreseeable fashion and essentially knocked a bunch of people’s livelihoods offline without warning or explanation and people are sick and tired of their things breaking for opaque “security” reasons.

[zepto]

I agree with 1 and 3 completely.

I think 2 is much more complicated and the solution is not obvious, but it’s still a very valid issue, indeed I would say it is the most important issue in the industry today.

However much of what I saw in the comments was none of these.

Most of it was intended to dishonesty brand Apple a ‘spyware’ company, or to brand anyone who uses Apple hardware or software as a participant in some great evil.

Neither of these are intellectually honest paths.

[arvindamirtaa]

That may be true. But Apple themselves started us down the path of zero trust. This is what I was promised - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZmeZyDGkQ0

This isn't what Apple is doing. If we're to take Apple's words that the govt agencies aren't 100% trustable just because they have a trustable setup today, why should we trust Apple just because they seem to be the good guys today?

[zepto]

Whether this is what they are doing or not, is a very good argument.

For example, not end to end encrypting iCloud backups is a major problem, especially if it is at the FBI’s request.

However, this has nothing to do with the certificate server outage.

Trust is not binary, and no matter what harmful things Apple does, nothing they do justifies intellectual dishonesty and lies from their critics.

If we want to critique them, let’s critique them for the things they are actually doing, and compare them to real alternatives or technical solutions.