[DanBC]

> The guards, the cameras,

People who don't know much about suicide prevention think these are important points, but anyone who works in suicide prevention can tell you that observations don't work; staff don't pay attention to the cctv monitors; staff lie about what they've done; people attach ligatures in ligature-point free rooms etc etc.

People kill themselves all the time, even when supposedly on 1:1 obs and in special wards.

[disown]

> People who don't know much about suicide prevention think these are important points, but anyone who works in suicide prevention can tell you that observations don't work;

You are being intentionally misleading here. I'm not saying that they could have or should have prevented the suicide, but the guards should have been there to monitor. The cameras should have been there to record/document. It's not the prevention I'm concerned about, it's the convenient lack of documentation/monitoring/etc.

> People kill themselves all the time, even when supposedly on 1:1 obs and in special wards.

But how many cases as important as epstein, where he was being monitored via guards and camera, and being watched for suicide have both the guards and cameras fail?

Arguably the most important inmate in US custody ( maybe in history ) and the guards are sleeping and the cameras are not working? Give me a break. Even the most naive person has to admit things aren't kosher here.

[DanBC]

> but the guards should have been there to monitor. The cameras should have been there to record/document.

Yes, but we know that guards do not monitor. We know cameras frequently aren't working.

> It's not the prevention I'm concerned about, it's the convenient lack of documentation/monitoring/etc.

You say "convenient", I say "sadly all too familiar".

> But how many cases as important as epstein, where he was being monitored via guards and camera, and being watched for suicide have both the guards and cameras fail?

Honestly loads. Fred West, Harold Shipman, were both notable serial killers who took their own lives when in prison. West murdered 12 people and was on remand. Shipman, who murdered over 200 people, had previously expressed suicidal intent and gave a reason for wanting to die.

> and the guards are sleeping and the cameras are not working?

You keep saying this, as if it's some kind of smoking gun. The thing I'm trying to tell you is that it's very common and that it's not in anyway surprising that a person, even a very high profile person, dies by suicide.

[AndrewBissell]

Were either of those serial killers allowed to take their own lives while they were still awaiting trial, and while their testimony was reasonably and widely believed to have the potential to implicate a large number of the ruling power elite?

Did either of them commit suicide within mere weeks of a previous attempt?