[Corinthian]

True story:

My Dad flew with BA and once a year (until the age of 25), I could get an annual free flight with him. For my last free trip we went to Hong Kong and Tim Lancaster was piloting, so I got to meet him - enjoyably, everyone affectionately knew him as 'Tim out the window'. He gave me a harrowing account of the whole experience, worst of all was trying to tilt his head backwards so he could breathe.

Also interestingly, as we were approaching to land in HK, we suddenly started gaining altitude again and ended up doing a lap round the island because, "The runway was busy". Tim later confessed to me that he'd hit the wrong button and withdrew the approach flaps.

They also regaled me with stories of the old HK landing strip that involved flying so low through the city, you could see into people's rooms, shortly before banking hard to the right when you saw a giant chequer board on the side of a mountain, and landing.

I then spend a week going out every night in Hong Kong city with several plane loads of Airline Stewardesses. That's another story, but suffice to say, I was very lucky 24 year old boy.

[bhrgunatha]

> They also regaled me with stories of the old HK landing strip that involved flying so low through the city, you could see into people's rooms

I flew in that way several times. It was always a treat.

There was also the opposite point of view, being on the streets. You'd suddenly see a very, very low aircraft appear briefly with a deafening roar from above the buildings. There was very little noise build up as a warning.

[Corinthian]

I think I remember being told that pilots needed ten years flying experience before they were even allowed to attempt this landing. That can't be a pleasant first-attempt at all.

I can imagine it must have been an incredible site from the ground.

I wonder if that landing is in the new Microsoft Flight Simulator?

[andi999]

I heard simulator training on this landing was mandatory for beeing allowed to land there. Also I know smbdy who lived in downtown HK during that period. I asked how was it with the planes, respond was: it looks like you can touch them with your hands when they fly above you. I asked about the noise. Noise wasnt the problem (since it was gone fast) but the streets smelled bad of kerosine/exhaust for some time which was the real nuisance.

[tim333]

I lived a while under the flight path near the airport. My main memory of inconvenience is they would drown out the dialogue of whatever you were watching on TV for about 30 seconds. There was a park behind the house next to the chequer board where the planes passed so close you could see the rivets.

[GekkePrutser]

Not by default as it mirrors today's world and the airport is obviously gone, but there's third party mods already!

https://flightsim.to/file/642/vhhx-kai-tak-airport-hong-kong

[Scoundreller]

> These days several roads cross the site so you'll be enjoying a steady stream of cars plus a wonderful light show at night that can't be removed.

[rswail]

I was travelling to HK a lot in 1995/6. I was lucky enough to sit in the cockpit (ah, pre 9/11 days) on approach/landing to Kai Tak in a 767 and then a 747.

The most amazing thing was that the guidance (the famous checkerboard) basically directed the automatic landing to fly the planes into the mountain.

So they'd be on automatic pilot until a certain point, when the pilot took full manual control to do the right turn over Kowloon to land.

Things I remember most:

There were no flashing lights allowed in Kowloon advertising etc, up in the cockpit, the pilot pointed out that there were guidance lights flashing upwards along the flight path in Kowloon that you couldn't see from the ground.

A 747 is big. I remember the 767 automatic voice announcement as we got close to the ground, 500 feet, 400, 300, 200, 100, 50... I was expecting the same in the 747, but it's much bigger so I felt us touch down well before I expected.

The amazing feeling watching the pilot making slight movements and the entire plane banking. There was this hidden power that was pretty exhilarating.

[howlgarnish]

That would be Hong Kong Kai Tak "Heart Attack" approach: https://youtu.be/NiPyrfEuOeo

There's one particular video (which I can't find right now) which shows an airplane about to land at an angle due to strong crosswinds, then essentially hovering in place for a moment so it can reorient correctly before touching down. I'm still not sure how that's physically possible with a jetliner (ground effect?).

[mastazi]

If you refer to this video [1] the fact that the plane approaches "at an angle" is called "crabbing" and the "reorientation" at the very end is called "de-crabbing" [2], this looks very dramatic from the point of view of external onlookers, but it is actually more comfortable for passengers because it doesn't involve uncoordinated flying (in other words the plane stays "flat" instead of banking towards the incoming wind) and for this reason it is the preferred technique for airliners (as opposed to the other crosswind landing technique, which is called side slipping and involves lowering a wing into the wind). You can see a comparison of the two techniques here [3] (look at "Figure 1" and you will easily see the difference). You are correct that ground effect is quite visible in that clip.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE

[2] actually in the clip this happens twice, crab, de-crab, then crab again then de-crab once more on touchdown. The Kai Tak checkerboard approach, even without crosswind, was an incredibly difficult approach and in this case the pilot had to perform a couple of corrections.

[3] http://www.flaps2approach.com/journal/2014/6/17/crosswind-la...

[therockspush]

B-52s can turn their gear so the don't have to do the de-crab part.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tyc9Imjaqs

https://theaviationist.com/2020/11/05/watch-this-incredible-...

[capnahab]

This happens fairly regularly (in my experience) at Leeds and Bradford airport too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAljM7CaY10

[howlgarnish]

Thanks for the explanation, this video is even better than the one I was thinking of!

[saalweachter]

That video is the difference between "I bet I could land an airplane in an emergency, if someone talked me through it" and "apparently pilots actually learn something in pilot school".

[hazeii]

Flying into Kai Tak was a fantastic experience, especially at night. Looking into the buildings rushing past each side and watching them get relatively higher as the plane descended made it really weird. Plus the last few seconds when all you could see was water outside made it feel like you were about to land on the sea, followed by the sudden bump, thump of ground contact.

[ppur]

I think you might be looking for https://youtu.be/bKqO6gdJIz8 (at about 0:33 in)

Shows a 747 banking at an incredible angle (though I feel like that hovering thing may just be an optical illusion)

[mastazi]

Based on parent's comment (which mentions crosswind) I think it would look more like this (i.e. a crab landing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE

[jcims]

Crazy when you think that plane probably weighs around 250 tons at that point.

[FartyMcFarter]

Probably an optical illusion? I don't think a plane can hover over a fixed point, unless the headwinds are strong hurricane force or something.

With very strong headwind, a normal plane could theoretically land vertically, or even backwards. I wouldn't recommend it though.

[ceejayoz]

Can’t do it with a 747, but with a lightweight bush plane and a steady wind you can. https://youtu.be/QFllgHbjnlU

[soneil]

Yes - "hovering" in a fixed-wing is very much possible, and even desirable for STOL landings (very popular & competitive in the Alaskan bush scene).

It's still very much an observer-effect illusion however. The observer considers the speed in terms of groundspeed, the physics consider the speed in terms of airspeed. If the difference between the two values exceeds the stall speed of the airframe, the effect is sustainable.

[rconti]

I'm sure it's not at all the same, and in particular, they're using larger planes like the 747, but it reminds me of the approach to San Diego (minus the turn).

[ilamont]

My wife worked for an airline and on one flight to Kai Tak I was invited to sit in the jump seat (the position behind the captain and opposite the navigator or engineer) during the approach. It was utterly amazing and terrifying at the same time, especially the looming mountain which had a giant blinking arrow indicating the direction of turn.

This was (obviously) many years ago.

[clubdorothe]

> spend a week going out every night in Hong Kong city with several plane loads of Airline Stewardesses. That's another story, but suffice to say, I was very lucky 24 year old boy

I want to hear that story

[GekkePrutser]

Ahh Kai Tak. I wish I ever flew into there while it was still open. The approach is legendary.

[tim44]

Well timmed.