[keiferski]

Both are Orthodox Christian countries, whereas Poland is strongly Roman Catholic. Ergo Poland has always been more connected politically and culturally to the West / the Roman Church, whereas Bulgaria and Ukraine have been more connected to Russia.

[disown]

> Ergo Poland has always been more connected politically and culturally to the West

Politically and religiously more connected to Rome, not the West as Rome stopped being the head of the West for centuries now. But Poland is also ethnically, linguistically and culturally closer to the slavic nations.

[pawel_dyda]

Ethnically (genetically) we're more closer to Russians and Ukrainians (much more than Czechs or Slovaks). Linguistically we are very close to Serbs and Croatians, then Czechs and Slovaks and not very close to Russians (there are important differences), but obviously as Slaves we have to be closer to other Slaves. However, when it comes to social psychology we're much closer to Americans. If we talking about cultural inspirations, we are much more influenced by ancient Rome and Greece, classical literature and arts than to other Slavic nations.

[disown]

> Ethnically (genetically) we're more closer...

My point wasn't about which slavic groups poland is more closer to. The point is that poland is a slavic nation and hence far more closer to other slavic nations than to italy/rome/etc.

> If we talking about cultural inspirations, we are much more influenced by ancient Rome and Greece, classical literature and arts than to other Slavic nations.

All slavic nations are more influenced by ancient rome and greece than each other because the slavic nations didn't contribute much to literature/arts until fairly recently. Russian leaders didn't call themselves tsars ( russianized caesar ) for no reason. And it's not an accident that cryllic alphabet looks awfully like the greek alphabet.

Your point is true of all northern europe really as northern europe didn't produce any meaningful culture until the past few hundred years. Prior to that, northern europe had to rely on roman/greek arts because northern europe was lacking in culture/art.

Sure poland is more influenced by rome/greece than by russia or ukraine. But that's the same for russia/ukraine. They are more "inspired" by rome/greece than poland. Doesn't change the fact that they are all slavic nations though.

[krzyk]

Yes, Poland is closer to slavic countries. More specifically to west slavic ones - Czech, Slovakia.

Vs.The the east slavic and south slavic ones.

Notice that similarly to other west slavs we are Roman Catholic.

As for political connection, Rome was almost non existent for centuries.

[woofie11]

Poland was closest to west Slavic countries, but until recently, it's been culturally closer to east slavic/south slavic than to Western Europe.

Rome has been nonexistent for centuries, but the foundations of cultures for most of Europe except the Slavic countries come from the interactions between Rome and the Germanic tribes.

Roman tradition (Western Europe): Legal behavior is ethical behavior.

Slavic/Polish: Laws and ethics are two different things.

Roman: Behaving politely is paramount and one needs to maintain decorum. Positivity.

Slavic: People express themselves plainly and openly; complaining, criticizing, negativity, and rudeness are okay if that's how people feel.

Roman: Imperialism and cultural imperialism. One should help others by spreading their superior culture.

Slavic: Acceptance, tolerance, and fitting in. Polish people adapt to cultures they go to, and for most of history, oppressed groups (like Jews) flocked to Poland for their (relative) tolerance.

Etc.

[woofie11]

Poland has been in an awkward position where it was politically allied with the West, but culturally similar to the East. The Eastern countries weren't ones one wanted to be politically or economically connected to, though.

This gave Poland a position where it had strong economic progress, both due to an excellent school system and membership in the EU, but where it was discriminated against by Western powers which pushed Greco-Roman-Germanic culture, which is quite distinct and different from Slavic culture. Many Poles have an unwarranted inferiority complex, and many Western Europeans have a superiority complex.

The Polish Plumber ads played on some of that, in uniquely Polish ways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_plumber

[jhbadger]

Yeah, it was originally a religious thing. It's why Croats use the Latin alphabet and Serbs Cyrillic to write essentially the same language -- because Croats tended to be Catholic and Serbs tended to be Orthodox. Czechs and Poles use the Latin alphabet too because likewise they are Catholics for the most part.

[acqq]

According to Wikipedia, the majority of Czechs are atheists. Only 10% are Catholics (1) and there is a reason for that:

"Ever since the 1620 Battle of White Mountain, the Czech people have been historically characterised as "tolerant and even indifferent towards religion"."

"Pew Research Center found in 2015 that 72% of the population of Czech Republic declared to be irreligious"

Also (2):

"With the fall of the Habsburgs in 1918, more than a million Czechs (including 300 priests) left the Roman Catholic Church. Most chose not to affiliate with another church."

Why such a reaction? In (1) we read how the Catholic Church and the rulers behaved before, under the Habsburgs control:

"the whole population was forcibly converted to Roman Catholicism—even the Utraquist Hussites. All kinds of Protestant communities including the various branches of Hussites, Lutherans and Reformed were either expelled, killed, or converted to Roman Catholicism."

Also (3)

"Royal decrees pertaining to religion granted Protestant lords, knights, and burghers the right to choose either conversion or emigration. Only about one-quarter of the noble families living in Bohemia and Moravia prior to 1620 remained"

"The emigrations devastated Bohemia and Moravia, which may have lost as much as one-half of their population."

Then in 1781 Joseph II "abolished restrictions on the personal freedom (serfdom) of the peasants, and he granted religious toleration."

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Czech_Republic

2) https://fee.org/articles/how-state-religion-made-the-czechs-...

3) https://www.britannica.com/topic/Czechoslovak-history/The-Co...

[emmelaich]

Good links! Yet I would think that Catholicism was still the main determinant of language.

[keiferski]

Those are all correct links, but the current atheism in the Czech Republic is mostly due to communism. You can observe a similar effect in Albania.

[acqq]

I believe that can't explain the difference in the religious feelings in Poland and Czechia, both being in the same block during the same time after the WW II? I'd say Albania is not comparable, having completely different historical and cultural background and also the political separation from the block during the same years under much more extreme regime.

[keiferski]

It's an immensely complex situation and I can't explain it all in a HN comment, but the importance of the Catholic Church in contemporary Polish culture goes back to at least 1772, when the Partitions began. Czechs didn't have this same experience and were more "integrated" into Germanic and Habsburg Europe, Czechia wasn't completely razed during WW2, and the Soviets were, shall we say, less harsh on them than on the Poles.

In short, communism simultaneously increased Czech tradition religious apatheticism and Polish Catholicism.

[acqq]

> the importance of the Catholic Church in contemporary Polish culture goes back to at least 1772, when the Partitions began.

And the serious distancing from the same church by Czechs goes back even to centuries before that, as I've quoted before. Also note how Joseph II helped there only 9 years after that 1772 you mention.

[acqq]

Also, Albania seems to be much more religious, even 9 years ago, when the effect of the previous regime could have been a bit more strong than today:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Religion

[qwerty456127]

> Both are Orthodox Christian countries, whereas Poland is strongly Roman Catholic.

Most of the Ukrainians and Belorussians I've met were either Catholic or had Catholic grannies (and were atheist/agnostic themselves).

[keiferski]

Those were probably Greek Rite Catholics, which is also popular in the Rusyn ethnicity (a Slavic group in the areas between Poland, Ukraine and Slovakia.) Different history than Polish Catholics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ukraine#Demograp...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches