[umvi]

I agree there's a lot to be done to reduce the number of prisoners. But at the end of the day, what do you do about members of society who greatly harm others? (murder, rape, etc)? I can't think of any effective solutions which aren't prison, death penalty, or prison-disguised-as-something-else (like a hospital). Maybe exile? What's your philosophy in those cases?

[lhorie]

Well consider this: the legal system considers time served in prison as forgiveness, meaning that said murderers, rapists etc can go back to the streets once their sentences are over, regardless of whether they feel remorse or whether they are inclined to repeat their offenses. There's also stigma among employers etc against hiring ex-cons, which can help perpetuate vicious cycles.

There are places in europe, for example, where they focus on developing skills so that someone trying to integrate back into society has a more legitimate shot at being successful. Others have implemented non-policing systems such as drug addiction rehab programs, effectively diverting funds from a policy of handling certain types of issues as policing/legal issues and instead treat them as public health issues.

I also recall reading about a small town in US that was composed almost entirely of ex-cons, where they could start a normal-ish life in preparation to jumping back into the regular society, stigmas and all.

The topic of punishment of "lost causes" is itself sometimes a hot button. Some societies consider death penalty acceptable while others do not, for example. There's even differences in laws regarding things like involuntary manslaughter in driving accidents, for example (notoriously, the case of core.js maintainer going to prison for it). We could probably be here all day debating what is "beyond redemption" or not, and not come to an agreement, and we can see from the ratio of small crime inmates that we tend to err on the side of far too much caution / vengeful spirit.

You cannot treat miscreant behavior as if it was a movie, where you beat the bad guy and get a happy ending. Real people are complex beasts and life goes on after the credits roll.

[ashleyn]

The way I see this is, prison should not be taken lightly. The cavalier attitude of simply shoving addicts into prison glosses over the gravity of using this option.

There are appropriate use cases for prison, and violence in prison will be inevitable. The very least we can do is take that more seriously, and stop shoving addicts into the same place as violent murderers.

[cm2187]

But are you suggesting addicts can commit crimes to finance their addiction in impunity?

[hnracer]

> stop shoving addicts into the same place as violent murderers.

Isn't this already partly achieved by the delineation between low security & high security prisons, as well as delineations within the same prison complex (general population vs SHU)?

[asdff]

There are examples from around the world of prisons that aren't anything like the US model. It's not a hypothetical, it's a reality that isn't brought up in US political debate because moneyed interests favor the status quo.

[pnutjam]

Well, you're in luck. The majority of people aren't in prison for this, they are just exposed to this because they are in prison.

The guy in the article is in for 10 years for burglary due to a drug habit.

[ada1981]

Some sort of cooperative living space; rehabilitative; access to plant medicines and therapy; nature to farm.

[Broken_Hippo]

No to plant medicines. It is cruel to subject someone only to plant medicine, doubly so if it hasn't been rigorously tested: Give folks actual, up to date medicine instead. You know, the same quality that everyone on the planet should have. There is no reason someone should have to suffer more than they should. If you need anti-depressants, by all means, please have access. And to drugs that alter the course of auto-immune diseases to make them less of an impact on quality of life: Please give high blood pressure meds and insulin if needed.

Farming and nature isn't a cure, and does nothing to help someone adapt to the city they will likely be living in upon release.

[ada1981]

Huh? I’m talking about access to psychedelics which are the most effective treatment we have at healing trauma.

[gizmondo]

> access to plant medicines; nature to farm

Last time I checked unusual punishments were prohibited.