[hungryhobo]

Well how do you define a representative government? is election the only method of creating a representative government? Any Chinese can take up posts with in the government. Instead of worrying about what the color of the ties to wear because it polls better for a target group, chinese officials are given a KPI like deliverable to complete and that's how you rise through the ranks. Sorta like any modern private company. I'm aware there are pros and cons to both models but so far i think the chinese government is doing the right things to develop economically.

[frequentnapper]

Yes, as long as you're Han chinese, you have the opportunity. What he means by representative govt is other ethnic groups having the same say. If not, then be prepared to fight many wars.

[hungryhobo]

That is simply not true. Ethnic minorities in china get preferential treatments when it comes to college admission, job placement, they are also exempted from the one child policy. Of course you wouldn't know that because that doesn't fit the western narrative of chinese oppression of minorities

[_wt8k]

Not the person you were replying to, but I am aware of the college affirmative action for minorities and the exemptions to the one-child policy. From what I understand, the current trend is that such policies are being rolled back as the Chinese government begins to force the assimilation of minorities more heavily.

(In case this is on your mind: As for college discrimination against Asians in America, although many people conflate this issue with affirmative action, it is actually separate. One must make the distinction between pro-minority affirmative action and Asian penalization relative to the white majority. Asian-American penalization relative to white Americans is morally comparable to the historical Jewish quota, and the justification that affirmative action corrects for historical injustices absolutely does not justify anti-Asian discrimination. Nevertheless, I am also against pro-minority affirmative action because it is illiberal, but it is orthogonal to Asian-American rights.)

A lot of the discussion of China revolves around treatment of minorities. I would also like to draw attention to oppression of the Han majority. One example is that the Chinese government blocks websites, even for trivial or oversensitive reasons. (China recently blocked https://scratch.mit.edu, the children's website where I was introduced to programming...) Another example is that the Chinese government performed forced abortions to enforce the one-child policy. Now in America, there is a complicated political debate over the morality of abortion that involves issues of fetus rights, personhood, and choice. However, it seems to me that whether you are pro-life or pro-choice, the one-child policy, which involves abortions that are not up to choice, is profoundly immoral.

I believe that all human beings are endowed with certain unalienable rights, including the right to freedom to voice opinions without government censorship and the right to partake in democracy (whether that be a direct democracy, a republic, or another form of democracy). Everyone in the world inherently possesses these rights, regardless of whether their government recognizes them. I wish for the government of China to recognize these rights, because human rights are Chinese rights.

[ponker]

I'm not a political theorist but the Chinese government is out-competing the US government by leaps and bounds. The current President is busy whining that he won while the Chinese are building probably 100 railroads at the same time.

[_wt8k]

I didn't realize this when I wrote my earlier comment, but something that I found disturbing was that you seemed okay with the prospect of your own children being discriminated against, since you merely "expect that China is building world domination for the benefit of the Chinese people." I certainly don't want my future children to be discriminated against. Why do you think that a future where your progeny are second-class citizens is a morally acceptable one?

Even if we suppose that America and China are morally equivalent (which I strongly disagree with), just out of the self-interest of yourself and your family, why would you prefer China over America?

[ponker]

I do not believe that it's "morally acceptable." I believe that it is where the world is going. America is fracturing itself while China just keeps executing. Our bridges and electrical grid and transit systems rot into oblivion while people riot in the streets against their political opponents. While China is building up its hard power, soft power, and economic force projection with the Belt and Road initiative.

Was a incalculably powerful US that toppled democratically elected regimes in Latin America/Iran/etc. a morally acceptable one? No but that's what it is and all you other fucks had to learn English to get some of our money. Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are the fucks who will need to learn Chinese. Serves us right but I still ain't happy about it.