[bendmorris]

Presidents seem to get a lot of, sometimes undeserved, credit for the economy when they were President. Besides inherit a strong and growing economy, what specifically did Trump do to deserve credit for the stock market growth under him? And conversely, does he deserve partial or full credit for the impact of covid-19 (and his slow response to it) on the economy at the end of his term?

[FranzFerdiNaN]

He did have tax cuts to the rich, which probably helped the stock market.

[docbrown]

I really hope these past eight months cement the idea in more peoples head that the stock market has little correlation to reality.

It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers. Political policies may drive the market to react in a certain way from time to time but the only real 'direct' effects come from whichever Fed Chair is appointed at the time.

[jeofken]

A stock is a voting right in a company, which among other things can be used to vote for distributing dividends to stock owners.

That is what gives it value to the purchases of the stock.

It is purchased because the buyer expects to earn more from it than they paid, and that they likely can pass it on later.

The value of stocks is certainly connected to real value, and it is one of humanity’s greatest inventions.

[docbrown]

Of course stocks have real tangible value or else we wouldn’t be able to buy and sell them. They’re not something that you barter with.

However, the majority of Americans do not associate stocks with voting rights. Only a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with!

Most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not.

The value of the stock market, like you said, is based on the buyers expectations. Which is what I said: the market is controlled by institutions and money managers. Those are the majority of your buyers.

[dfilppi]

A slim minority of Americans have a 401k?

[docbrown]

Barely half have some sort of 401k program and the average holding amount is only $40,000. Nothing to really gloat about.

Earners of $100,000/year or more have 5x the amount in holdings as compared to those earning $99,000 or below.

Only 14% of Americans are invested in individual stocks outside of a 401k program.

401k assets only amount to 17% of the total US retirement.

None of these numbers tell a great story because Americans are not saving for retirement. If they are, they’re barely saving a years worth of their salary.

[jeofken]

I agree it’s sad how far this world is from perfection, and that so many don’t know about the benefits of owning capital.

I wish I could convince people to spend only half of what they spend on weed and alcohol on buying stocks - it would be of great benefit to the masses. How can we show them the benefits?

[dTal]

You're talking past the point under discussion, to wit:

>the stock market has little correlation to reality... It fluctuates based on personal sentiment from institutions and money managers

>a slim minority of Americans own stocks to begin with...

>most laymen investors or readers believe that the stock market is an indication of how well our economy is doing — which it’s not.

And therefore an improved stock market does not equate to an improved 'economy', and therefore it is incorrect to credit Donald Trump with an improved economy purely because tax cuts to the rich may have bumped the stock market. What on Earth does your comment have to do with that?

[bendmorris]

At best, we're assigning a ton of credit to him based on a vague "probably." Lots of non-Trump factors influenced the stock market over the last four years.

[ksk]

I'm nowhere close to rich or a Trump voter, but I'm glad my 401k) went up when the stocks went up. The Dem's economic policies in recent years are stinkers. I don't like the idea of raising taxes and creating new money-pit departments and thinking the government can fix stuff like education at the federal level. The idea of mandating people to purchase a healthcare product was also abhorrent. I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry.

[evgen]

It takes a certain level of complete ignorance to not know that for the past 30+ years the economy and stock market has grown more under Democratic presidents than Republican ones.

[ksk]

For the past several decades, presidents who presided over booming economies have shared credit. You must have missed that.

[georgeplusplus]

> I'd much sooner get behind something like a single payer/universal coverage and kill off the useless insurance industry.

At least in Germany most people still have a private care insurance option because the free stuff doesn’t cover everything and it’s just as expensive as the USAs insurance so I don’t think the insurance industry will go away just because their is a single payer system.

[dfilppi]

Killing off industries is not what free societies do.

[ksk]

Nobody is asking the government to make sneakers.

Universal access to healthcare is a human right, and insurance as a product by its very nature - is non-universal - as it relies on denying access to make profit.

The pre-existing conditions loophole in the current system means that you can purchase insurance one day before you get sick or need a major medical procedure and a private company is mandated by the government to pay up. The whole Obamacare plan is a clusterF*.

[georgeplusplus]

>> Universal access to healthcare is a human right.

Healthcare comes from a provider. Would you say a provider has an unequivocal obligation to provide its service to the people?

[georgeplusplus]

> Besides inherit a strong and growing economy

The bottomless debt and asset inflation Trump inherited was not a sign of a strong and growing economy.

How can you call a countries economy Strong when its lending its money for near zero interest? It’s a deeply flawed idea that’s not sustainable in the long run. Obama’s fed tried to placate this worry that the QE and low rates were temporary.

Well here we are. 12 years after 2008 and we are back to zero % rates and more QE that doubles the national debt every Presidents term limit.

The Truth is the economy began to show signs of cracking in dec 2018 with the yield curve reversal when Trumps fed tried to raise rates above a measly 2%. A healthy economy would not do this. The economy hasn’t been healthy since early 2000s

[amanaplanacanal]

His tax cut only made the bottomless debt situation you mentioned even worse. Every Republican administration wants to cut taxes. I don’t know how they can look at themselves in the mirror and still call themselves conservatives.

[georgeplusplus]

I agree with your statement. But the OP was a response to someone saying Trump inherited a good economy which isn’t true.

[vel0city]

FWIW while the Fed tried to raise rates during Trump's term, this was very much against the wishes of the Trump administration and Donald Trump.

[georgeplusplus]

They didn’t try. They did. And they found out that they couldn’t because as soon as they did the economy started to crumble. So was Trump justified in not wanting to