[AnimalMuppet]

I am not arguing that. I am arguing that krapp's claim (that "people in general have not lost trust in the system") is false.

You think that disbanding the police sounds semi-reasonable? (I think that starting by disbanding the police union, so that they can't protect neer-do-wells in uniform is where to start, but that's a side issue.) Then you're (I presume) on the left, and you are losing trust in the system. Which is my point.

[krapp]

Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea, even if they agree that reform is necessary.

The US is approaching the highest rate of voter turnout since 1900 - during a pandemic no less - that doesn't happen if most people have lost faith in the system. If anything, a lot of people who might have, got religion over the last four years.

[barumi]

>>Most people aren't in Antifa or BLM, and most people probably don't think disbanding the police entirely seems like a good idea,

But that's not what they argue, is it?

I've seen calls to refund the police as a slogan that points out that it's far more effective to use resources on social policies that stop social problems from happening than wasting those resources mitigating avoidable problems. One of the textbook examples is homelessness, whose root cause is lack of a social safety net that helps people with mental problems cope with their condition instead of throwing them in jail. The other one is drug abuse, where it's far more cost effective to treat addictions as diseases than to throw drug addicts in jail.

The only instances I ever saw of calls being made to disband police departments were due to rampant systemic corruption problems affecting some police departments which are too entrenched to salvage, and how the US has already a long history of tackling that type of problem by replacing the whole police department with a brand new one.

[jfim]

One can have no faith in the system yet still vote. The turnout in this election is driven by the large polarization of the electorate ("the other side will do unspeakable things if you don't vote to save America!"), not by trust in the system.

[AnimalMuppet]

We seem to be arguing at cross purposes. I'm talking about people (as are most of the others here), and (I think) you're talking about political parties. (And you always have been in this thread, so my initial reply to you was where things went a bit sideways.)

But I think you're still wrong. The way the Democratic Party dealt with Bernie Sanders (twice) is not the sign of a party that believes in the system.