[unethical_ban]

There are certain drugs that simply should not be encouraged by legality. Heroin and meth, for example. Incredibly toxic, highly and immediately addictive, and easy to overdose.

There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to.

[LorenPechtel]

Lets look at heroin a little more carefully.

Incredibly toxic? Hardly--it actually has a quite good safety profile when used as intended.

Highly and immediately addictive? About 5 weeks ago I had a close chemical cousin of heroin. 3 times in fact. Addicted? I never felt the slightest desire for it once the cause of the pain was gone and I certainly didn't like what it did to my digestive system. (Morphine, given by a doctor for a kidney stone. Heroin is basically two morphine molecules stuck together.)

Easy to overdose? The extremely limited medical use of heroin means we don't have good data, so lets look at morphine instead as it should be similar. The therapeutic index is 70. (This is the ratio between the proper dose and the dose that might kill, the higher the number the better.) For comparison, the therapeutic index for acetaminophen is 3--and yet it's over the counter!

Heroin overdoses are common because of two issues:

1) Unknown purity. Users deliberately go close to the limits to get the biggest high, if they get heroin with a higher purity than they expect they can go over the edge. In a world where you bought your heroin from a pharmacy rather than the street such deaths would pretty much not happen.

2) Jail. Someone has been in jail for a while and not using, they get out, they take what they're used to taking--but now they aren't habituated. Now the dose is lethal. This one could certainly be reduced by having a required class for all druggies about to be released from jail--explain the problem and warn them that their usual dose is probably now a lethal dose.

[joveian]

Another common way to die is to take heroin and benzos at the same time (both are respiratory depressants). This happens with the similar prescription painkillers as well.

There are some other combinations that can cause similar trouble too (alcohol plus benzos, alcohol plus opiods).

Accidental overdose can also happen after relapse, most easily if avoiding the substance rather than receiving medical addiction treatment. Or if taking combinations of drugs that combine to impair judgement.

[LorenPechtel]

Yup. A friend's girlfriend lost her daughter to alcohol plus benzos and she wasn't even a druggie.

[reassembled]

Don't forget about the huge ramp up in overdoses over the last few years due to street heroin being cut with fentanyl. I lost my best friend two years ago from this. If he could have been getting a known pharmaceutical quantity from a medically supplied source this wouldn't have been an issue.

[UglyToad]

I don't think you're right about heroin, addictive, yes, but actually far safer than say paracetamol.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jun/14/drugsandalc...

Either way, a public health approach is the only rational way to keep people safe and battle addiction.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> paracetamol

In this USA and some other countries, this is normally called acetaminophen. It's the active ingredient in Tylenol.

[Svperstar]

>There are drugs that, if you use them, you should be encouraged not to.

Yes but how does throwing someone in jail and giving them a felony record thus destroying their life help?

[ogre_codes]

Exactly.

There are drugs (crack cocaine, bath salts, maybe meth) where I think dealing should have severe penalties, but most of the people who are using these drugs are doing so because they are already struggling with life issues. Putting them in prison is almost certain to cost taxpayers a ton of money and utterly destroy that person's life.

[throwaway_pdp09]

I don't think the poster is of this kind but some people want to label other people as 'bad' and watch them get hurt. Prison for drugs is one way.

[unethical_ban]

I didn't say that.

Rather, that decriminalizing is good for some, but I'm glad we haven't legalized all of them.

[godelski]

I think you can legalize things and still discourage the use of. Look at tobacco as an example. Or even alcohol. I'd argue that it's actually easier to discourage with legalization that without, but this is debatable. My position is that if it's legal that makes it easier to seek treatment. Seeking out treatment isn't going to get you fired or put in jail while you're trying to turn your life around.

[throwaway_pdp09]

> Incredibly toxic

cite?

> highly and immediately addictive

Depends on the person. Crack wasn't interesting for me. Never used H but a proportion of people who can use it safely, like I would have a drink and know when to stop is ~50% (figure from memory from a letter in newscientist which I've been unable to find).

> and easy to overdose

What's the safe range? I think you are saying something I and many ohters could agree with but they need backing up.

[rv-de]

Well, that's your opinion - but reality would like to have a word with you. Doctors in the US are giving out Adderall (similar to meth) and Fentanyl (even more addictive and dangerous than Heroin) like candy.