[bhupy]

> Having medicare for all and a social safety net is standard in all European countries and other Global North countries.

No disagreements that having a robust social safety net is a necessity, but just want to nit-pick a little here and point out that not all European/Global North countries have "Medicare for all" or single payer systems. Germany has a public-private mix, Netherlands has a purely private universal healthcare system, Switzerland has a purely private universal healthcare system, Australia has a public-private mix (44% choose private), Singapore has universal catastrophic coverage but everything else is driven by savings accounts and private insurance among the upper-middle class, etc etc — Belgium, South Korea (technically "single payer" but only covers 60% of costs, private insurance fills in the gaps), Japan, etc.

Even "Medicare" in the US, is a public-private mix: roughly 37% of Medicare beneficiaries are on a private health insurance plan (Medicare Advantage), and we expect that number to reach 50% by 2025.

[bergstromm466]

Yes. I appreciate the nuance you bring. I would reword where I wrote 'medicare' as: 'affordable healthcare', which in it's current form is (as you described) often a mix between private and public mechanisms/institutions.

[AnthonyMouse]

But that makes all the difference.

Affordable healthcare is what people really want. The current system of government incentives/mandates for employer-provided insurance in the US does that poorly and we're rightly criticized for it.

But there are a dozen plausible alternatives that are all better, and "Medicare for All" isn't even a particularly well thought-out one, because the existing Medicare system is premised on the continued existence of private insurance to do things like establish market prices. It's also the moral equivalent of having healthcare policy done at the level of the EU rather than the individual member states, which tends to invite more corruption and waste since both of those are compounded by scale and deep pockets.

Which is the real problem with the US system as it is. The employer-provided system is largely created and regulated at the level of the whole US, and as a result there are some specific businesses who are making out like bandits under the status quo, and affordable healthcare is inherently inconsistent with those companies continuing to make three point six trillion dollars a year. So they lobby hard against anything that would actually fix it, no matter whose solution you choose.

[sidlls]

The Medicare “mix” is from supplemental insurance—insurance in addition to Medicare. It’s also contentious and arises due to the same issues that cause us not to adopt Medicare for All: the private insurance companies’ purchasing of politicians.

[bhupy]

It's not. When you turn 65, you have the option to enroll either in "Original Medicare", which is what we usually think of when we talk about "single payer healthcare in America", or you can enroll in Medicare Advantage (aka Medicare "Part C"), where the premiums that would go to the CMS instead go to private insurers like Humana, United, Oscar Health, and Clover. These plans replace Original Medicare, also cover Part D prescription drug benefits, and often include supplemental benefits that Original Medicare doesn't already cover. The supplemental insurance you're talking about is "Medigap", and that's for people that choose "Original Medicare", but wish to fill in the gaps with private insurance. Today, Original Medicare only covers 80% of costs, and does not cover Part D drug costs. It does NOT apply to Medicare Advantage beneficiaries, which is what I'm talking about in my original comment.

36% of Medicare beneficiaries are on private Medicare Advantage plans instead of the public "Original Medicare". This number has been growing so rapidly, that we expect by 2025, more seniors to be on a private plan than the public one. There's also great variance by State. In Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Alabama, Hawaii, and Connecticut — over 40% of beneficiaries are on Medicare Advantage[1].

For most beneficiaries, Medicare Advantage costs about 39% less than Original Medicare[2].

Medicare Advantage plans are, on average, of higher quality than the public "Original Medicare"[3].

In Urban areas, Medicare Advantage costs less per capita to administer than Medicare [4] — and that's not including the extra Medicare Part D insurance that you would have to buy if you're on the Original Medicare plan. From this same research, public "Original Medicare" is still cheaper in rural areas, but not by a whole lot.

Disclaimer: I write software for claims processing and payment systems. I love talking about this stuff, so happy to chat more about it.

[1] https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/a-dozen-facts-about...

[2] https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/medicare-advantage-...

[3] https://healthpayerintelligence.com/news/medicare-advantage-...

[4] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2...

[sizzle]

"Medicare Advantage plans are, on average, of higher quality than the public "Original Medicare"[3]."

I thought the difference between Medicare advantage type plans is that it is an HMO type of deal where you can't pick your own specialized treatment centers and have to jump through a lot of hoops for complex medical issues and drugs as opposed to original PPO resembling Medicare (80% costs) + medigap part F? (remaining 20%) + part D for drugs.

Also thanks for the thorough breakdown, I had to go through Medicare hell getting this information to manage my parents care on an advantage plan that denied their cancer treatment at our preferred cancer center so I switched them back to original + medigap and never looked back cause everything is covered now at the world-class top ranking cancer center in our neighboring city.

[bhupy]

> I thought the difference between Medicare advantage type plans is that it is an HMO type of deal where you can't pick your own specialized treatment centers and have to jump through a lot of hoops for complex medical issues and drugs as opposed to original PPO resembling Medicare (80% costs) + medigap part F? (remaining 20%) + part D for drugs.

Nope, Medicare Advantage plans are usually just PPO plans on a nationwide insurance marketplace that covers the Part A, Part B, and Part D benefits. By default, "Original Medicare" is just a government run version of that which only covers Parts A and B. That plan is also not "free", per se, as the beneficiaries still have to pay a monthly premium — it's just that the monthly premium covers Part B benefits, and Part A benefits are all covered by FICA taxes. I think(?) there are also some HMO MA plans. Seniors are now on average choosing Medicare Advantage instead of "Original Medicare" more often because they happen to like the varieties/options. If you don't care about those options, you're still entitled to Original Medicare just like you did with your parents.

The closest the tech community has probably gotten to Medicare Advantage, as a concept, is Chamath's recent SPAC taking Clover Health public. They're an up and coming MAdv payer, and appear to be growing pretty quickly. Oscar Health, another hip tech company, has a big Medicare Advantage business as well.