[niftich]

Hydrogen allows energy to be stored and moved in bulk, in physical space, and at the point of final consumption it will not produce carbon emissions. These are desirable properties for a country that imports most of its energy from far away, and for a producer that's awash in energy but has limited options in exporting it out.

In the short term, this also greenwashes Japan's energy situation at a glance, by shifting more of the emissions to Australia away from Japan compared to simply shipping solid coal around. It also keeps Australia's fossil fuel extraction sector going. Critics of hydrogen are right to point out that some of the most vocal proponents of hydrogen are fossil fuel producers, and that an overwhelming majority of today's hydrogen is produced from fossil carbon fuels.

In the long term, those who built out hydrogen infrastructure will be at an advantage if hydrogen production from electricity ever becomes economical, for two reasons:

First, if electricity is abundant, electricity will consequently capture a larger share of total energy consumption, leaving only those uses where electricity is impractical (e.g. airplanes, hypermobile vehicles, off-the-grid storage, long-distance transfer, open flames). Hydrogen presents a useful answer to many of the applications where electricity won't work well.

Second, momentary surplus electricity should be consumed in an electricity storage mechanism from which a portion of the input can be recovered, but most other electricity storage mechanisms are stationary installations that can only time-shift, but not space-shift. Hydrogen storage can be used to time-shift like any other, or space-shift to move it out of the source grid entirely.

[Reason077]

> "most other electricity storage mechanisms are stationary installations that can only time-shift, but not space-shift"

Time shifting is the difficult part of the problem. "Space shifting" is pretty easy to solve by extending and interconnecting the grid. HVDC cables can move energy instantaneously, in much greater volumes, and with much higher efficiency than with hydrogen.

Here is one ambitious project to do exactly that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia–ASEAN_Power_Link

[Danieru]

At greater cost for lower loses yes.

Meanwhile hydrogen gives both space and time shifting. Yet also what I think is the biggest aspect: a competitive market.

Japan being poor in all resources must constantly maintain relations with their oil suppliers. Right now, and for the past 40-50 years this means Saudi Arabia. Before that it was the US.

Right now Japan may import most oil from Saudis, but thanks to the tradablity of oil they do buy from elsewhere. Most important: they can easily switch. Japan maintains enough slack in the supply line to fuel the country for half a year. Thus if the Saudis cut off japan today, they have 6 months to piece together new supply contracts.

Thus HVDC is nice, and part of the future, but it cannot replace the security aspect for Japan. Hydrogen promises so much for Japan.

Such 75% is wasted, but Japan already has the most expensive electricity in the world. So much so that fueling a BEV is not much cheaper than gasoline.

A hydrogen economy for Japan would mean energy security through diversified suppliers. It would allow Japan to stock pile energy.

All this plus: Japan's ministry of economics has been championing hydrogen tech for over a decade. Unlike the US this implies more than press releases. Japan has been maintaining a consistent policy of subsidizing fuel cell production and prioritization. Already Japan has the world's largest install base of fuel cell's for residential use.

If Hydrogen plays any part in the world's future energy mix then Japan wins big. The sorts of tech Hydrogen requires is surprisingly complex and diverse.

Did you know a hydrogen flame is invisible to the human eye? One can only imagine how dangerous that is, fire without flames. But fear not: Panasonic can supply hydrogen flame detecting cameras and alarm systems.

All else equal Hydrogen makes a flood of sense for Japan. Decades ago Japan pioneered liquid natural gas. Now they want to pioneer the hydrogen economy.

[Reason077]

> "Japan being poor in all resources"

But are they really so resource poor?

Japan lies on the Pacific ring of fire and Izu–Bonin–Mariana Arc, giving it very significant geothermal energy potential. In fact, Japanese companies are leading suppliers of geothermal turbines globally! Yet they barely make use of their own domestic geothermal resources. If Iceland can power 25% of its grid with geothermal energy, and New Zealand 17%, why not Japan?

And what about wind? Like the UK, Japan is an island nation with a huge wind resource, both on and off-shore. The UK has almost 10,000 installed wind turbines with a capacity of over 20 GW, supplying 24% of all UK grid demand. Japan, on the other hand, barely has any. Why?

It seems like Japan is blinkered by hydrogen technology to the exclusion of all else!

[Danieru]

If you tippled the population of Iceland you would now have 1% of Japan. Scales are not comparable.

Iceland never had an Onsen culture. Japan's easy geo spots are already all famous Onsen towns and tapped. Sure it happens, but geothermal cannot pull much weight.

As for wind: Japan is unique in being horrible for on shore wind with absurdly steep cliff of a shore line. The coast of Japan gets deep quick. While Europe gets to build their wind farms on bedrock Japan is only now experimenting with floating wind farms. Atleast that's what I've learned from talking with people involved with wind in Japan.

Thus Japan's renewable energy generation is going to be solar. As it happens I only a 300 panel solar power plant as an investment. For myself I want to see hydrogen become viable because it can serve to put a floor on electricity prices. Without a base demand nothing prevents my peak solar production getting sold for free. With a hydrogen economy, all else equa,l atleast I might get 1/4 of peek prices.

Let me phrase all this a different way: Japan hates oil. Oil is Japan's largest import. After 2011 Japan's trade balance went massively minus just because of extra energy imports. If Japan had an easy out, they would have taken it.

Which leads me to my original "resource poor" comment. Japan is the classic example of the inverse dutch-disease. Japan has nothing, so they only survive by building high value add industries. Anything less and the island starves.

[Reason077]

> "Japan's easy geo spots are already all famous Onsen towns and tapped. Sure it happens, but geothermal cannot pull much weight."

At least one agency of Japan's government disagrees:

"The Japan Oil, Gas and Metals National Corp. estimates the country’s geothermal potential at 23,400 megawatts, putting it at No. 3 in the world... However, Japan has an installed geothermal capacity of only some 500 megawatts"

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2019/03/09/environment/unl...

[reportingsjr]

I don't see hydrogen being a long term useful energy source vs other chemical means (i.e. batteries).

One thing I do think people aren't seeing is the usefulness of hydrogen as a chemical feedstock.

If/when we move away from oil (oil wells potentially drying up over the next century) we need a good source of building block hydrocarbons for chemical production. Carbon is easy, hydrogen not so much.

[pjc50]

Again, that is only relevant if the hydrocarbon isn't from fossil fuels in the first place - which in the original article it is.

[BurningFrog]

> most other electricity storage mechanisms are stationary installations that can only time-shift, but not space-shift

It would be perfectly possible to space-shift by charging up batteries with Australian solar power, ship them to Japan and then ship back for recharge.

I assume that since it's not done, it's not currently practical.

[pjc50]

Requires a huge capital investment in batteries, which are then idle for the voyage in both directions.

However, we can think this through a bit: what is a battery? It's a pair of redox reactions, involving two electrodes and either one or two electrolytes. The electrolytes are usually liquids. That led to the concept of the "flow battery": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery

So, if the electrolytes can be stored in tanks separate from the electrodes, theoretically you could put the tanks on ships and cycle the electrolytes between countries.

[Gravityloss]

Why does Japan need so much power? Does steel actually have to be manufactured on the spot? Maybe it could be done somewhere with better availability of energy resources? (Like nuclear power in Korea or solar in Australia)

I already know that for example aluminum is manufactured in Iceland. In a way it's an energy export.

[yorwba]

Japan and Korea are currently locked in a trade dispute. If Japan were dependent on Korean steel, that would give Korea more leverage.