[quixoticelixer-]

I guess it depends on your definition of permaculture, I was thinking more like an integrated orchard system. You are quite right about your 'alternative grazing methods', they are productive and much much better for the soil than Corn + Feedlots that you get in the US. I do work on a farm that does a fair bit of that sort of stuff.

[minerjoe]

Yea, we're arguing symantics. My apoligies. The word "permaculture", nowadays, is, in my circles, a big umbrella word for many different systems. Many of those systems would not necessarily call themselves "permaculture". A big umbrella - "permanent agriculture", or agricultural practices that do not degrade the land, but rather can run on for millenia, there are many systems we are now discovering, some ancient, some newly synthesized, that have that potential to feed the world, while, at the same time, healing past damage .