[minerjoe]

E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run, but, at least in the US, you can get truckloads of computers that were destined for the scrapyard, for free.

One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely.

I've assembled a small lab, with many computers, laser printers, scanners, tablets, projectors, big-screens, etc. Without spending a single dollar on hardware.

This has two effects, it reuses a resource that was destined for destruction, and it doesn't add fuel ($$$) to the ecological dumpster fire that is modern capitalism.

[itsoktocry]

>One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely.

I think broad computer illiteracy in the general population has convinced people that you "need" a new, powerful computer. In reality, 95% of the population can get away with any decent computer from the last 10 years. Grandma isn't training a neural net, she's checking Facebook.

I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue.

[flyinghamster]

These days, even a low-end Android phone, taken back forty years, would be a supercomputer beyond anything that existed then.

Unfortunately, layer after layer of framework on abstraction on framework on abstraction sometimes means that we need a supercomputer to render a user interface, and still end up with perceptible lag. :)

Regarding elsewhere where I mentioned running BOINC on a Pi 4B, I'd also note that (at least from a RAC standpoint) it's almost up there with a ThinkPad X201 Tablet with an i7-640LM throttled to 1.2 GHz. If I switch the BIOS from "balanced" to "performance" mode, the ThinkPad will run a bit faster but within an inch of thermal shutdown. I might be able to overclock the Pi enough to achieve parity with the throttled i7.

Eight years ago, I'd never had guessed that we'd see the Pi turn the corner to become a usable general-purpose desktop.

[ThrowawayR2]

microSD cards don't really cut it for a general-purpose desktop in terms of lifespan and reliability and SSD over USB is an awkward workaround at best. Hopefully the RPi 5 will have NVMe or a SATA port at least.

[m0dest]

Agree; from my experience with Pi SD cards, it’s straight-up irresponsible to recommend that anyone use an SD card with the Pi for their main computer.

Every Pi SD card has ended in irreparable disk corruption. The SD hardware’s wear-leveling and delayed allocation is fundamentally incompatible with any device without a battery, especially with frequent writes.

The “official” solution for the Pi is to use read-only SD cards with overlayfs. That’s not the default and it’s not how entry-level users will use this.

[seg_lol]

I believe a CM4 module could fit in the same space. They were probably developed in parallel, so they couldn't afford to gate the Pi 400 on the CM4 timelines.

Also, don't under estimate the performance of future SD cards.

v0, get it shipped

v1, improve

[Drdrdrq]

The issue with SD cards is not performance, it is longevity. I threw away more SD cards than I care to admit. :-/

[seg_lol]

What is your experience with the DVR series of SD cards?

https://carcamcentral.com/guide/recommended-microsd-cards-fo...

I know there are other power down issues with SD cards and corruption well. I think in a class setting I would have important files replicated to an NFS server, with at least hourly snapshots.

[throwaheyy]

I’m surprised there isn’t a market solution for long-life (SSD lifespan) SD cards. SD card is just a physical/electrical interface, couldn’t manufacturers put more resilient flash circuitry inside?

[TaylorAlexander]

Integrated would be cleaner but I’ve found it to be quite simple to boot off of a USB3 drive on the Pi4.

[NikolaNovak]

Agreed; I've been getting refurbished ThinkPads for my entire family for 10-15 years now. Currently they're all enjoying T420 and T420s - technically a 9 year old laptop but goes up to 16GB of RAM if needed, will take an SSD easily, and runs everything necessary on Windows 10 easily enough. the S version in particular is as slim as you need a laptop to be, while still being completely modular, i.e. easily repairable and upgradable.

My primary laptop is a newer T25 because I couldn't resist the keyboard, but my primary desktop is still a 9-year old AMD FX8350; with 32GB of RAM and SATA SSD, I game, Lightroom, Photoshop, VMWare Workstation, and anything else I need easily enough.

[codethief]

> I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue.

+1 for i3. Been using my Thinkpad W510 with i3 non-stop since 2010 and it's still working like a charm. For the past months, though, I've had to use a Dell XPS 13 for work. Now that I've equipped it with i3, as well, it's merely using 3.5W while I'm doing ordinary computer work and some coding, meaning that I can get 15 hours of battery life easily, and often even 20h. Absolutely mind-blowing.

[chrisweekly]

You said it. Heck, my 2012 macbook pro retina (15) is still usable as a daily driver .

[slightwinder]

Old Computers are usually rather big, heavy and a bit limited in their ability in terms of interfaces. Like they often have no sd-card-slot, bluetooth or wifi. And yes, they need more power.

This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids, has all necessary interfaces to make something funny and can on worst even run from a manual energy-source (which of course is more relevant for a poorer country than a rich country).

I can see kids taking this RP400 around like a (paper)notebook, work with them at school, home, their friends home or somewhere else and motivating them to use them more than some stationary device. And because of the hdmi they even can switch places fast if neccessary, limiting the interuptions in their work.

[minerjoe]

One city government around here threw away over 100 HP thin clients. They run on about 10-20W. I plan on making a nice cluster out of them.

The point I was trying to make, which doesn't seem to come across, is that spending $ on new equipment is a shortcut. A quick fix. Spending just a bit of time seeking out the sources of e-waste in your community, in the right technical hands, can pay off big.

You don't have to feed the beast. It doesn't take much vision to see that the action of paying $ into a system that happily externalizes all damage is part of the problem and directly contributes to the ecological and socialogical degradation we are all hopefully observing.

You can get all you need for hardware for free if you spend the time to seek it out and at the same time, you are helping clean up the mess.

We developers, many of us have been around from the time that 16K was a lot of memory, a 40MB hard drive could hold all you had, and 1 MHz was fast enough to play with almost any of the ideas in computer science. This is still true for many many tasks. I would argue that learning algorithmic complexity (big O) can be easier when you don't have a massive amount of compute that blasts through O(2^n) in about the same time as O(n) for many data sets. Try that on an apple II. A ten year old computer can have 16G of ram and run dual cores over 2GHz. You can learn a heck of alot of computer science with one of those machines. No need to feed the beast.

[kllrnohj]

> This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids

Not usefully it can't. There's no display, so that "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places. And since we're talking about kids - places with a front panel HDMI port, which is even rarer. Or you have to pair it with a portable monitor, in which case you spent as much as an entry level laptop and got something worse in return.

This is a cute little toy, and I want one, but that's all it is - a toy. Same as all the RPI's before. Good intro to hobby electronics programming with the GPIO, but not a disruptive entry-level computing experience, either. That place remains in the realm of the ultra-budget laptops, as they require no existing infrastructure.

[tomcam]

> "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places.

Wait what? Doesn't virtually every TV sold in the last 10 years have an HDMI port?

[kllrnohj]

Other than your own living room at home, where do you go that has a TV just hanging around free for use? Coffee shops don't. Classrooms don't (certainly not enough for every student, at least). Parks don't. Trains/busses/airplanes don't. Backseat of the parents minivan probably doesn't, either.

Like where else can you use this other than a basically permanent installation at home for this to qualify as "taken everywhere by kids"?

[baq]

there's less and less accessible ports. tvs are large, mounted high up and the cables aren't long enough to be comfortable.

[ant6n]

It doesn’t have a battery, right? So you can’t just unplug it and replug it elsewhere without shutting down.

[zeckalpha]

Electricity utilization is another dimension. A Pi can run off batteries or a hand crank in the worst case.

[justin66]

> E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run

In the developing world electricity tends to be very scarce. Raspberry Pis, and stuff of that sort, are ideal for that environment.

[bitwize]

A few months back I literally found a computer by a dumpster in the rain. It was some corporate castoff from a local investment firm. I brought it in, dried it off, let it dry thoroughly for a few days, and examined it, and the innards looked to be brand-spanking-new with no rust or damage in sight. After installing a hard disk (its original hard disk was removed and presumably erased or shredded), it was ready to go.

It's a pretty sweet machine too, an HP Elite 8300MT from about 2012 or so. It has one of those side panels that can be removed by working a latch with your hand -- no screws necessary. I'm making it into a build server.

[dbancajas]

how did you find out about the local school throwing away 50+ small dell quad-core i5s?

[elteto]

Check your county/state/school auction websites.

Hard to give more info, there isn’t just one auction site for all schools or counties, but a bit of googling will probably get you what you want.

[NewOrderNow]

How do you find about these auctions? I always here about them in movies, but I have never experienced these real auctions.

[NortySpock]

A friend pointed me at https://www.govdeals.com (not affiliated) but plugging "government auctions" into Google got me a few hits as well. Not sure about the veracity of all of these sites, but some of them will ship to you.

On the other hand, you're often looking at "Lot of 38 Dell Latitude 5570 Core i7", "These items have been used by students or employees within a professional Community College environment. Items have been maintained, updated, and well kept.", minimum bid $5,800.00

Or something like "(1) Dell Optiplex 780, bad power supply, pickup in-person only, we don't ship" so you'd have to be in the area and interested in swapping a PSU.

[brainless]

I agree with you and I want to look into that too. But I am not sure it would be easy to order such computers, in working conditions, as easily as this RPi. If the logistic hassle is too much, it might not take off at all.

[raverbashing]

I don't know why you're downvoted.

This is exactly how it's done in many places. A 10yr old computer is perfectly fine for this, maybe even older. Yes it might not play all youtube videos, but it works.

[101008]

Because probably that's not the situation in India.

[raverbashing]

What do you mean by "not the situation"? That they can't afford old computers? That it's not practical? That they don't need and can buy newer ones?

[dbancajas]

The schools in india can barely afford computer. and so are not throwing them away 1-2 years later.

[paleogizmo]

The better question is what the used enterprise computer market is in India. Given that engineering salaries are no longer an order of magnitude less than the USA, I would assume that there would be a large secondary market of sub $200 laptops and SFF desktops. Is that not the case? Do businesses keep them till the wheels fall off? Do they get exported overseas? Can schools not compete on price with middle class consumers for used computers?

[untog]

I think they are implying that situations where 50+ small dell quad-core i5s are being discarded is not common in India.

[raverbashing]

That's why I'm talking about 10yr old computers (or maybe even older)

[chrisweekly]

I like what you do and why you do it; do you have a blog or website?

[minerjoe]

Sorry, I do, but it is geofenced to the local community. You're welcome to email, in my profile. We're working on something world facing, but there are massive benefits to having a local cloud. For one, all of our communications never leave town. Fuck PRISM.

[Chris2048]

> They might take a bit more electricity to run

But how much more? Just "a bit" or a significant amount?